Category: unhealthy churches | Page 22

Blindsided: Pastor Andrew Ray’s Message on Biblical Forgiveness

**Names marked with an asterisk (*) have been changed for the privacy of individuals and their families**

How did Pastor Andrew Ray respond to my email to him about the harassment and about the dangers we perceived in Douglas Stauffer? He preached a message that same evening, Wednesday, June 20th, 2018, about “Biblical Forgiveness.” Can I truly say that he was preaching at us? In the meeting the following Sunday evening with my husband, Pastor Ray admitted that he was “preaching at himself too.” To think that, once again, despite seeing through the intent of the message at the beginning, we took the bait hook, line, and sinker by the end of the message, tears down our faces and questioning our resolve to leave! As with most messages at Antioch Baptist Church, the actual live-streamed message, “Biblical Forgiveness,” can be found on YouTube (it has since been made private).

“Biblical Forgiveness” by Pastor Andrew Ray
Wednesday Evening Service, June 20, 2018
(Message Time-frame: 29:17-1:14:32]

In this series I share my thoughts and opinions concerning these ministers and the events which led to my departure. Click here to continue reading: “Blindsided: Shredding the Evidence” or click on the link below.

For a list of the complete series, click here.

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Crystal Old’s Email to Pastor Andrew Ray about Douglas Stauffer’s Harassment and Character

**Names marked with an asterisk (*) have been changed for the privacy of individuals and their families**

Despite everything that happened over the last few weeks, and despite that we had already determined our days at Antioch Baptist Church were numbered, we still loved our church and we still cared for the people who went there. We desired to see it prosper and we wanted to see it grow, but I firmly believed that Douglas Stauffer was leading it towards its destruction, and I felt that Pastor Andrew Ray was likely blinded by their close-knit work relationship and friendship.

Just two days later, on Wednesday morning, June 20, 2018, after months of not being allowed to give my opinion about Douglas Stauffer’s first comments from back in January, to Stauffer’s harassment and accusations after I finally spoke up, followed by his public apology and then message to Miranda Crawford* revealing the heart behind his apology, I could no longer keep my mouth shut. Big surprise, right?

Back in Pennsylvania, I had been under a mentor and her husband, and though my mentor was my best friend and like a mother to me, her husband ended up being spiritually and psychologically abusive, leaving me with post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) for years to come. Matthew Olds was one of the many people instrumental in getting me away from that toxic environment, and because of our experiences, Matt and I recognized traits in Douglas Stauffer that showed up as danger signs in our minds. Even if our pastor never believed me and never saw it, I needed to know that I at least attempted to warn our pastor about a man that we felt had several narcissistic traits.

Below is the email I wrote to our pastor, based solely on my opinions and recollections at the time, but not intended for public display. I reached out to Pastor Ray– my husband knowledgeable, for the record- as a concerned and hurting church member, who hoped for the slightest possibility that her pastor could see the same dangers she saw in this man who found his way under the pastor. There was a part of me that needed to speak, because even if we did not stay at Antioch Baptist Church after our youngest was done nursing, I needed to know that I had done everything I could to warn Pastor Ray about Douglas Stauffer. Though every conclusion contained in this email was entirely my opinion at the time, I still hold to the same opinions today based on the information provided in this series, and in the posts to come. Douglas Stauffer even supported these fears by later attempting to use this email as part of a threat to keep me silent.

Email, “More Questions”, from Crystal Olds to Pastor Andrew Ray
Wednesday, June 20, 2018 at 9:16am.

Thank you for your kind words a few days ago via text. I know these last couple weeks have been a bit of a whirlwind, and I’m sorry for any harm that it caused you and your family. As I look back though, and consider everything that was said in church, online, and in meetings, I can’t get away from a few questions that I need to ask. The stupid Facebook post near the beginning of this thing was never meant to attack you or your character, and it was never meant as a question about how you responded personally to everything that happened last fall. It was meant as a question of the stance taken that it was okay to destroy people behind the pulpit, and that a church rupture was a good thing. That it was one of the best things that could have happened at our church. My question is about Stauffer’s attitude behind it, how *he* handled this situation, and about how things will be handled in the future. My question is if this is how you believe a man standing behind the pulpit and representing our church should act, and if you support how he handles the situations with the members of our church family.

I want to ask [you] to listen to the voicemail that he left my husband [attached to email], and I want to ask you to look at the messages that he sent through private messenger in a group message with me and my husband [also attached to email]. I feel like he attacked me, attempted to manipulate and control me through fear, and attempted to assert authority that he did not have. After Matt had requested that I not respond, and that he would look at it tomorrow because of how late it was, Stauffer continued to attempt to manipulate me and attempted to instill fear in what he could do or would do. He also twisted what I put up as an apology (approved by Matt, as everything has been), and then used guile to try to say that Matt couldn’t see the comments that others were saying.

In the messages on Monday, he attempted to say that we MUST meet before attending any services, and when that [was] questioned, he asked if it would be out of line for you to respond in such a way to such an “egregious act.” He then went around my husband to message me and further manipulate. When that was brought to light, he asked if Matt’s opinion is the only one that matters.

In the meeting on Tuesday night, when we said that he didn’t have the authority to do something, he said, “I can do whatever I want!” That is man who desires power. He said himself that he starts off meetings with a heavy hand and that they tend to work out better that way. He said that he was planning on coming down on someone soon and that he didn’t want them to to have the heads up, and that that was what was behind his “ill-advised” comment behind the pulpit. Feel free to listen to the recording.

In his own way, he sort of apologized for what he said in his messages to me, but then went back to say that he was defending the pastor. He further defended his statements by saying that he was defending you. I feel he believes he has absolute power to do whatever he wants as long as he is “defending the pastor” in his eyes. He said that you approached him and said, “You had better deal with it, or I will.”

He posted an apology online, but then he also said that he had to give some-what of an apology because of the only thing online was the misperception of a Facebook post. That is not a real apology.

You said that he spent “HOURS” with everyone that left. If this is the case, it is very likely that he turned them away even more. I feel that he could have been the nail in the coffin for anyone that he spoke with. Is this really what you desire in this church in terms of reconciliation? Is this what our church desires in terms of leadership or a man preaching behind the pulpit?

He assumes that he has absolute power. He has told Matt that he does not want the responsibility of being a pastor, but then turned around and said that he can do whatever he wants. Furthermore, he is deceitful and full of guile. The meeting with you and Matt over the missions trip, then how many times his story changed about WHO he was speaking of behind the pulpit, how he twisted your words to say that we could not attend, and that you had told him to take care of it, only further shows that he will twist the truth and tear people apart to get what he wants and desires.

This is much longer than I intended, but it needs to be said. I’ve been here before. No, I shouldn’t have put up that post, but putting up a simple question to a message should not have resulted in his actions. It did, however, reveal that festering sore (Stauffer, to be clear that it’s not you) that we’ve wondered about for a long time. I’ve dealt with men that are spiritually abusive, power-hungry, and only desire to have the pre-eminence. Just look at your office that is no longer your office, but his studio where he posts a stock photo online of for the equipment.

You don’t have to believe it. You don’t have to see it. What I suspect you don’t see is the impact of his negativity, criticism, manipulation, and control on our church, or the impact that will likely continue and grow until it is destroyed. We have a great church and I think we can agree that we want it to continue to grow spiritually. This is a dangerous man because he doesn’t care about who he takes down along the way, and he is doing in the name of protecting you. In such, he destroys your character from the inside out.

Crystal

Email, “Looking Back on that Last Message”, from Crystal Olds to Pastor Andrew Ray
Wednesday, June 20, 2018 at 9:44am.

Pastor,

Looking back on my last message, I’m afraid it came out harsher than I wanted as a whole. I love our church and I want to see it grow. You’ve been a great pastor and there for me through so much. This has been our home for four years now. But I’ve seen this before. I know what this looks like. This isn’t meant as attack on you, but other than being hurt immensely these last few weeks, I’m concerned about what he has done with others and what he will do in the future. It isn’t about you other than that I’m afraid of what will happen with the ministry here as long as he continues to make it about himself and how he looks. Antioch is supposed to be about preaching truth, but also love and brotherly kindness. If I didn’t care, I’d be gone. And maybe that’s what everyone would prefer by now, but I care about our church. I care about what happens to it.In this series I share my thoughts and opinions concerning these ministers and the events which led to my departure. Click here to continue reading: “Blindsided: Pastor Andrew Ray’s Message on ‘Biblical Forgiveness’” or click on the link below.

For a list of the complete series, click here.

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Blindsided: The Illusion of Pastor Andrew Ray

**Names marked with an asterisk (*) have been changed for the privacy of individuals and their families**

That Wednesday evening, June 13, 2018, my husband, Matthew Olds, and I finally heeded a friend’s counsel to take a break, for the sake of our own family, as well as our church family. Though we had initially considered visiting another church a few days prior on Sunday night, we shifted our plans to Wednesday because of the financial meeting planned with Seth Razler*. On Wednesday night, we visited at a sweet, Independent Fundamental Baptist Church in our area, and though we later realized that it was not the church home for our family, the strong Christians there and the safe, endearing environment they created, were an absolute haven for us as we quietly tended to our family’s wounds left by the leadership of Antioch Baptist Church.

Why did we not leave Antioch Baptist Church in June or July? Because we still saw Pastor Andrew Ray as the pastor that loved and cared for our family. Not only did we not see him for who- we now believe- he had become, but we feared re-creating the tension of the nursing situation at another church. A breather, however, was exactly what we needed to make it through the next several months.

Come the following Sunday morning, back at Antioch Baptist Church, I ran into Mary*, the pastor’s oldest daughter, and I apologized for how my initial Facebook post affected her. I assured her that upon writing that post, I was unaware of the previous situations that had occurred, including the ones that she had been through, and that I never intended for her to get hurt.

The next morning, Monday June 18, 2018, I messaged Pastor Ray to inform him that I had apologized to Mary*, and I further wanted to clear the air about my lack of responding to his friend request to me on Facebook that he retracted after a week. I feared that not responding right away would appear to be out of spite or anger, and though my greatest desire was to keep from hurting my pastor even further, I simply was not ready to open back up to anyone and risk being hurt that deeply again.

His response, as always was reassuring and encouraging, just as he had been through the whole situation, with the exception of his private Facebook messages to Matt. But I even understood and justified his reaction through the private messages because his family was hurting, and what man would not lash out upon perceiving a threat to his family? Despite his family’s anguish, after meeting with Matt a mere two days after Douglas Stauffer’s carnal message, I had lifted my head from facing the ground in embarrassment and shame, only to meet my pastor’s usual compassionate eyes and hear him say that he loved us and loved our family. I believe I merely gave a thankful smile because I was still too overwhelmed emotionally to speak. Despite the agony written across his face and the depth of pain which I felt I had inflicted on him and his family the last several days, I thought I recognized the face of my pastor, the one that knew our past struggles and fears, knew us for who we were, and was attempting to give us a chance to make things right as brothers and sisters in Christ. I had no idea that he had just crushed my husband, removed us from all ministries, and made my husband his cheer-leader from the sidelines, while Douglas Stauffer roamed free.

Fast-forward two weeks later, right after informing Pastor Ray that I had apologized to Mary*, his text messages presented the same calm and reassuring attitude towards us that he also presented in person. We assumed, despite his previous comments about the “writing on the wall,” that we were all working toward reconciliation. We assumed he was genuine and the same pastor we had known for the last four years. But once again, we assumed incorrectly. We had no idea that he would later accuse us of trying to destroy our church, something he deemed to be “his life’s work.”

Text Messages Between Pastor Andrew Ray and Crystal Olds (Matthew Olds included in group text)

Crystal Olds (June 18, 2018 at 8:49am): Pastor, I saw your friend request on Facebook a week ago, and I saw it come off over the last day or so. I just need time and space at this point. I want things to be okay again, and I was trying to converse as if things were calm and normal yesterday, but these last two weeks have been filled with triggers and I need space to work through them. I’m spiraling (c-PTSD) and I need time to sort through the emotions and everything that happened.

Crystal Olds (June 18, 2018 at 8:49am): [Continued] I meant to catch you last night and while you probably already know, I did apologize to Mary* yesterday afternoon. She’s growing into a sweet young woman.

Pastor Andrew Ray (June 18, 2018 at 10:23am): Thank you for writing sister! Mary* did tell me and I appreciate both your apology and your sentiments toward Mary*. As for the friend request, I just withdrew it so that it was not in your face. I figure, if or when you are ready, you can send one to me.

Pastor Andrew Ray (June 18, 2018 at 10:23am): [Continued] On a separate note, but just to be above board, I will be tightening my settings in the next day or so, because I need to keep the Post Tribbers and works salvation attacks at bay as long as possible. I did not want you to think those changes had anything to do with you. Today I am going to try to snuff out post or mid trib “friends.” Believe it or not, people taking a stand on the pretrip rapture have had some of the these guys show up at their front door to debate and argue with them. Just wanted you to be aware.

Thank you again for talking to Mary*. I hope you have a great day.

Crystal Olds (June 18, 2018 at 10:23 AM): I had no idea that that was going on. People have lost their minds. I really hope that no one tries that with you guys, and thank you for the heads up. I would have wondered.… so thank you for that. We are praying you all have a good week and Lord willing, see you all Wednesday

Pastor Andrew Ray (June 18, 2018): Sounds good. Thank you sister!

Crystal Olds (July 1, 2018 at 10:50pm): Thank you Pastor. Meeting tonight really helped. That said… The “amen” question is a perfect example of what I was trying to ask with the example you gave of Teletubies. At this point, Matt isn’t against a woman saying amen, but I’m afraid it could come across as disrespectful or that I don’t care, now knowing for sure where you stand. I never want you to think that I just don’t care and I never want to be in your face about something you disagree with. Just needed to get that out there.… And thank you for another point on my side of the board for “I told you so” with Matt (just kidding).… It’s been a messed up month, but I’m thankful you’re our pastor.

Pastor Andrew Ray (July 2, 2018 at 9:45pm): Sorry to take so long to respond. I’m glad I could be of some help to you. Thank you for your kind words.

Crystal Olds (July 3, 2018 at 11:26pm): No problem and thank you. Good night pastor. Lord willing see you all tomorrow night

Pastor Andrew Ray (July 2, 2018): Liked “No problem and thank you. Good night pastor. Lord willing see you all tomorrow night”

Pastor Andrew Ray (Sep 18, 2018 at 9:45pm): <3
[Crystal Olds accidentally sent heart emoji while looking at previous messages with Ray following her departure from Antioch Baptist Church]

In this series I share my thoughts and opinions concerning these ministers and the events which led to my departure. Click here to continue reading: “Blindsided: Crystal Olds’ Email to Pastor Andrew Ray about Douglas Stauffer’s Harassment and Character” or click on the link below.

For a list of the complete series, click here.

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Blindsided: Straight from the Horse’s Mouth

**Names marked with an asterisk (*) have been changed for the privacy of individuals and their families**

Miranda Crawford* and I had been communicating through Facebook messenger, beginning with her reaching out to attempt to comfort and encourage us through the chaos. On Tuesday, June 12, 2018, the day after Douglas Stauffer’s “Bit of a Confession,” Miranda* sent me Stauffer’s own explanation of his apology. Douglas Stauffer did acknowledge that his recent statements had nothing to do with the Crawfords*, but he once again apologized for how his “ill-advised” actions could have affected them, and said that some form of an apology was necessary because the only thing public was a “mis-perception” of the truth that started with his “ill-advised” comments. Once again, we feel that Stauffer said exactly what he meant at a time when he believed his true actions and motives would not be revealed.

Jeremy Crawford*: I just wanted you to know that I don’t have any hard feelings toward you and though I am trying to overcome some bitterness… I have been praying for you and for Antioch.

Douglas Stauffer: Jeremy* I understand that things spiraled out of control rather quickly and much of it took place when I was traveling so I did not see enough of it firsthand. I do stand behind pastor Ray because I know what it is like to feel attacked and you want to fix things in a hurry. Honestly, he too wonders how differently he could have handled things, but don’t we all? Don’t I even today with all that has recently transpired?

Douglas Stauffer (continued): People have no idea what it is like to stand in a pulpit with every word scrutinized and everyone wondering the motives- good or bad- behind every single statement.

Having said all that, all the things of recent had absolutely NOTHING to do with you or your family. I don’t want to give details because it seems that those sometimes just add fuel to the simmering coals that reignite the fire that seems to be somewhat quenched for now. Regardless, I do apologize to you and your family if my comments based on my internal thoughts caused me to speak ill-advisedly and caused you any further hurt.

Douglas Stauffer (continued): Please pass along my sincerest apologies to your family and thank you for reaching out to me. I feared putting anything out there publicly because it sometimes just opens more old wounds; creates more questions and talk, yet somewhat of an explanation/apology was in store because the only thing out there was mis-perception that started with my ill-advised statements.

Douglas Stauffer (continued): We ALL wish things did not turn out the way they did and want nothing but good/great things for your family. Although the bridges may be burned here, God wants to use each of us in our own ways. Even two of the greatest Christians had sharp contentions at times but God was ultimately glorified. That is my hope for all concerned.

Acts 15:39 And the contention was so sharp between them, that they departed asunder one from the other: and so Barnabas took Mark, and sailed unto Cyprus; 40 And Paul chose Silas, and departed, being recommended by the brethren unto the grace of God.

Miranda Crawford*: He somewhat apologized. Jeremy* was responding (privately) to the post he put out on FB

In this series I share my thoughts and opinions concerning these ministers and the events which led to my departure. Click here to continue reading: “Blindsided: The Illusion of Pastor Andrew Ray” or click on the link below.

For a list of the complete series, click here.

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Blindsided: Douglas Stauffer’s Public Apology

“Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.” 1 Corinthians 13:1

On Monday, June 11, 2018, the day after the meetings with Pastor Andrew Ray and Seth Razler* and approximately a week after Douglas Stauffer’s message on carnality, Stauffer messaged my husband, Matthew Olds, and asked him if the apology below was sufficient. We assumed it was a facade, considering his harassment and attitude toward us the week before, but we figured any pressure on Pastor Andrew Ray could have forced Stauffer’s hand. At least, finally, the man who preached against apologizing was actually making a public remark, and maybe, just maybe, it meant that the chaos at our church would begin to calm down. Just maybe it meant we could all begin to move forward.

Doug Stauffer’s Facebook Post (Monday, June 11, 2018): “A Bit of a Confession!”

”Preachers are sometimes guilty of saying ill-advised things from the pulpit. Guilty! The preacher can have the best of intentions but one fleeting thought that turns into a sentence or two can prove disastrous for the preacher, harm the hearers, and create long-lasting repercussions in the lives of countless others. Social media and instant access to sermons outside the church walls compounds the problem because things are heard and misconstrued especially when those words lack the necessary context.

The problem is that the preachers are human; those in the pew are human and both are expected by God to act and react in a superhuman capacity. I wish I was talking about somebody else, but I am not. I want to apologize to any that I have ever offended with ill-advised words in or out of the pulpit. It has happened in the past and will happen in the future. My prayer is to rise above the level of simply walking, talking, and thinking like a man; it must be possible if God rebukes those who “walk as men.” 1 Corinthians 3:3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and WALK AS MEN?’ Doug” [LINK: https://www.facebook.com/douglasstauffer1611/posts/1974808689217742]

Now, did we truly believe Douglas Stauffer was honestly apologetic for his actions, considering he apologized for “saying ill-advised things” once again? Not a chance, but to voice our opinions at the time would have been fruitless and my husband and I just wanted to get this behind us. According to Merriam-Webster, “ill-advised” means “resulting from or showing a lack of wise and sufficient counsel or deliberation.” We believed Stauffer’s public confession to be a facade considering he had already clarified his true opinion in the voicemail he left us the night of his carnal message:

“I still meet and talk to those people that left. Um, but I think it was the worst thing in the world that those that are complainers and gripers and destructive in the church left, and I’m upset about it? I’m not. I think it was good for the church. I think that, um, division and divisiveness, um, you know, there’s no place for it in the church.“

By calling his actions “ill-advised,” Stauffer merely admitted that his actions were unwise, but never that he was truly in the wrong.

On the other hand, could Stauffer truly have been a victim of being a preacher “expected to act in a superhuman capacity”? In Stauffer’s January message, after proclaiming that the complainers left during the mass exodus, Stauffer said jokingly, “Sorry guys. I had to say it. It just came to mind. You gotta- you know- you gotta be gracious with the preacher. Every now and then we say things we shouldn’t say. No matter how truthful it is.” To make matters worse, in his Sunday school message only a week later, Stauffer followed up his statements by the exodus to a “circumcision,” and that “the flesh has been cut off.”

We attempted to hold on to the smallest amount of comfort in the thought that, just maybe, this meant Pastor Andrew Ray was finally starting to see Stauffer for who we felt he truly was. Of course, Stauffer placed himself in the light of the victim, once again, as he continued to do in the months to come, but how could we have outright said, “No, your apology is not really an apology” or “No, it is not sufficient”? We accepted the situation for what it was and merely hoped to continue to move forward toward peace and reconciliation in our church.

**Names marked with an asterisk (*) have been changed for the privacy of individuals and their families**

In this series I share my thoughts and opinions concerning these ministers and the events which led to my departure. Click here to continue reading: “Blindsided: Straight from the Horse’s Mouth” or click on the link below.

For a list of the complete series, click here.

********
Shop at our Amazon store! As an Amazon Influencer, this website earns from qualifying purchases.