Author: TryingtheSpirits

Already emotional from the stress of Douglas Stauffer’s messages not being allowed to explain or defend myself, my heart broke when Matthew Olds showed me the messages from Pastor Andrew Ray on Monday evening.  I still firmly believed Stauffer’s actions were wrong, his messages manipulative and deceitful, and that he needed to be held accountable for his actions, but I never meant the heartache it caused my pastor’s family or the teens in our church, especially not the pastor’s daughter, Mary*. I truly believed Stauffer was behind several of the people leaving, and I could not understand how my post blew out of proportion to hurting my entire church. That evening, I wrote a public apology for Facebook and took down my first post. I also created a Facebook Messenger group with Doug Stauffer, Andrew Ray, Matt Olds, and myself, to apologize again and let them know a public apology was online.

My friend’s responses were encouraging and helpful as my head went around in circles trying to figure out the whirlwind around me. In response to a comment on my public apology, Walter Gibson* commented within the ongoing discussion and I sent him a private message about the current situation, giving very little detail. Our conversation was peaceful, cordial and friendly, just as interactions between our families had always been at church. Walter Gibson’s* commenting, however, is important to note because Pastor Andrew Ray will bring this up in a later meeting to say Walter Gibson* is probably the first person that Matthew Olds should apologize to before continuing on to the other men of the church and inquiring as to whom he should apologize to next.

As will be shown in the next set of messages, Stauffer again twisted my words to say that the public apology [shown below] placed the blame on Pastor Ray and made me the victim. As a result, near the end of the comments, my husband requested that people refrain from commenting further and the post had to be replaced once again.

**Names marked with an asterisk (*) have been changed for the privacy of individuals and their families**

Crystal Olds (Jun 4- PM) I have taken down my previous post because Pastor informed us that people were hurt by it because it re-opened wounds. That was never my intent and I truly apologize for that. You guys are our church family and it was never meant to take sides between who was right and who was wrong between those who left, and those who are still here. In fact, anyone that we have fellowshipped with and are close to that have left, have done their best to uplift the members of Antioch and to try not to say anything negative about the church, despite any hurt that they may have endured as well.

Will Hess: Your original post was encouraging unity and uplifting fallen brethren, correct? I don’t know how anyone would be offended by that…

Will Hess (Replying to Will Hess): Maybe what people are feeling is conviction so are rejecting that conviction and instead choosing to be offended.

Commenter #1 Wow that makes me really sad. I would hate to think I could not speak my mind in a loving way without someone being offended. You’re prob going to get scolded for this post too. ☹
Commenter #2 (Replying to Commenter# 1): Some leaders cannot take anyone voicing their opinions when it differs from theirs.

Walter Gibson* (Antioch Baptist Church Member): Read carefully. It is not his opinion that was voiced but others. Pleas make sure all context is considered in this situation.
Commenter #2 (Replying to Walter Gibson*): I stand by what I wrote and could say a whole lot more but won’t do so here.
Walter Gibson* (Replying to Commenter# 1): I understand and respect that. I could also do the same… 

Crystal Olds (Replying to Walter Gibson*): Walter Gibson*was there a men’s meeting?
Walter Gibson* (Replying to Crystal Olds): No. Nothing of the sorts. I just wanted to make sure context was being considered. The best thing is probably all involved (self included) stepping back and taking a chill pill. I think this is the whole point of 1 Corinthians 3 this week. Put aside differences and just move forward.

Crystal Olds (Replying to Walter Gibson*): [Walter Gibson*] Thank you, and completely agreed on all points… I want to supply context, but I fear it would only make matters worse in the process of trying to make things right. I mentioned Pastor because he did bring to our attention how my initial post hurt others in the church and I’m glad that he did so we can try to make that right. For context, my initial post was NOT about pastor. 
Commenter #3 (Replying to Commenter #2): It seems people today are easily offended by any and everything. 
Commenter #2 (Replying to Commenter #1): There was nothing bad about Crystal’s original post.

Crystal Olds (Replying to Commenter #2): This was just updating a minute ago (your comment was about ten minutes ago), but my husband is asking that all people please stop commenting. His comment is at the bottom.

 Miranda Crawford* :You have a precious heart, Crystal.

Commenter #5: People need to toughen up and move on with their lives. Here we are supposedly warriors for Christ… but words hurt.

Crystal Olds: For the sake of context, as I just said in another comment, I want to supply context but I fear it would only make matters worse in the process of trying to make things right. I mentioned Pastor because he did bring to our attention how my initial post…

Jeremy Crawford* (Replying to Crystal Olds): Oh, by the way, it wasn’t you that opened up the old wounds… was it?

Matt Olds: I only have a moment while I am on break, [to inform] that my wife will also be taking this down per her Authority’s request (that is to say, her hubby). She has to get the kiddos fed and in bed and that takes a lot of attention at their ages. Please refrain from responding on it as others are being hurt. I am sorry that all sides are hurting. It is not the Pastor that has said anything. He has been good and gracious. My aim and prayer is still that of reconciliation.

In this series I share my thoughts and opinions concerning these ministers and the events which led to my departure. Click here to continue reading: “Blindsided: Douglas Stauffer Twists Crystal Olds’ Public Apology” or click on the link below.

For a list of the complete series, click here.

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After Matthew Olds came home in the evening, we finally had the opportunity to discuss the events of the last thirty-six hours. We discussed not only Douglas Stauffer’s harassment, haughtiness, and twisting of words and circumstances, but Matt showed me Pastor Andrew Ray’s messages to him from earlier in the afternoon. Everything changed.

On top of the intense stress and frustration from Stauffer that I struggled to manage, compounded further by not being allowed to speak, I finally came to a breaking point seeing my pastor’s pain, coupled with the cuts of his betrayal. Because I was still instructed not to speak, and I was attempting to follow my church’s supposed biblical stance on submission, Matt responded to Pastor with his own opinions and emotions after an exhausting day.

**Names marked with an asterisk (*) have been changed for the privacy of individuals and their families**

Matt (June 4 at 7:52pm): It makes it harder to see when individuals are trying to make things right on social media when you’ve unfriended them.

But since you have had your entire family unfriend my wife, its only fair that you treat me the same. I know that she hurt a lot of people, but you sir have evened the score. Great job. I have so many thoughts that I want to say right now, but it would just be turned around to say that I am complaining, so I will say this, i am praying for the church and that with the Lords help reconciliation will occur… In time. 

 

Matt (June 4 at 9:18pm): As far as seeking my pastors advise on whether to break off relationships with those that have left, i vividly remember asking you whether they were being disciplined, and you said no, but that every story has at least two sides. I have done my best not to hear either story, and they have not tried to tell me their story. They have spoken well of the church. Many of them still say that they love you all. If you saw the writing you never communicated it, even when the door was wide opened for it.

We never meant to hurt you or your family.

 

Matt (June 4): I cannot speak for my wife and she cannot speak to you on fb as you have defriended (disassociated) yourselves from her, but i am so sorry that we have caused your family and our church family harm.

[No further response from Pastor Andrew Ray through Messenger]

In this series I share my thoughts and opinions concerning these ministers and the events which led to my departure. Click here to continue reading: “Blindsided: Crystal Olds’ First Facebook Apology Post” or click on the link below.

For a list of the complete series, click here.

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Following the message on Sunday morning and my post Sunday night, Douglas Stauffer’s voicemail, as well as his multiple demeaning and demanding messages from Sunday until Tuesday, Matt was finally off from work in the late afternoon/evening, and was able to call Pastor Andrew Ray on the phone, followed by Douglas Stauffer. This is a copy of Matthew Olds’ personal description of these phone calls, a document we listed in a file sent to several men of the church (witnesses of the last meeting) following our letter of resignation from membership at Antioch Baptist Church:

“These messages began shortly after the voicemail left on my phone (transcribed below). Pay attention to the times of these emails not allowing for any time to actually pray and respond to the current situation. In particular, [Doug Stauffer’s] third email the first night, a mere fifteen minutes after the first,  he said, “And since you have seen my messages and have not done as I have asked in hiding this post until you have responded scripturally by meeting, this would seem to indicate that you feel justified….it is likely that your tirade is an attention seeking ploy….”  Any attempts over the next few days to follow [Stauffer’s] requests for apologies were met with that nothing was acceptable, everything was supposedly an attack on the pastor, and Stauffer threatening that he would take things public.

During this time [Monday afternoon], I spoke with Pastor over the phone addressing the issue of whether we should be at church tonight as messages from Stauffer read as though we were being churched until the meeting with him could happen. Pastor said that he would rather that we be at any and all services, but to meet with Stauffer as soon as possible. I then called Stauffer and asked him about being churched, and he didn’t understand what I was talking about, but rather began complaining about my lack of responding to messages while I was at work. My job was very busy that day and I had a lot to do. As he continued to speak on my lack of responses, I had to repeat NUMEROUS [times] that I was at work and was unable to respond without stealing time from my boss. It would be unpleasing to the Lord. During the course of my day, what few responses I had mentioned about my work situation and that I would respond at the end of the day. Stauffer then spoke that he was not attempting to enact church discipline, but rather was saying it out of “Christian decency.” In which case, I mentioned that there is a difference between “MUST” and “should”/ ”needs to.” One speaks of decency. One speaks of church discipline. He then said that he still wanted to meet with me when we got there. We were unable to attend that night as my wife and I had a lot to process through and discuss.”

In this series I share my thoughts and opinions concerning these ministers and the events which led to my departure. Click here to continue reading: “Blindsided: Continuation of Messages between Matthew Olds and Pastor Andrew Ray” or click on the link below.

For a list of the complete series, click here.

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Although I lost all respect for Douglas Stauffer over the last few years, Andrew Ray was my pastor. He was the one who helped us when we needed to find a church home, supported us when Matt was set to not receive his diploma, counseled us for hours because of my brokenness following previous spiritual abuse, and was there when we returned from Africa and we had to postpone missions work for the unforeseeable future because of the PTSD. Even though there were the red flags I mentioned earlier, I pushed them aside thinking of Pastor’s character and what we knew of his heart. It was not until after my post that we learned that Pastor Ray and his wife were at the center of the various families who left Antioch Baptist Church, so while we did not agree with every decision or statement, we still supported him as he dealt with various circumstances of the ministry.

I say all of that to say this: This message from Pastor Andrew Ray cut deep for both of us. We had no idea that the meeting from the fall about his family was entirely connected to this situation, and we had no idea that his meek and mild teenage daughter was one of the people severely hurt. I never intended for her to get hurt. On the other hand, however, the man who we still supported and trusted, our pastor of four years, said he saw “the writing on the wall” and disassociated us from his family?  Douglas Stauffer needed to be called out for his actions, but I never intended for any one else to get hurt in the crossfires.  

**Names marked with an asterisk (*) have been changed for the privacy of individuals and their families**

Private Facebook Messages between Matt Olds and Andrew Ray

Andrew (Ray) (June 3 at 11:21am): Good morning Brother Matt! I hope you are doing well today. I wanted to reach out to you and let you know that I saw the post from Sister Crystal last night and was greatly discouraged by its contents. Not only did I see it, but a good number of people from our church were also disheartened by it. I was glad to see that it got pulled sometime in the late hours, but not before it gave great space to people to think critical thoughts of our church. That is a very serious matter.

 

It is obvious that the post was directed against Brother Stauffer and yet I wonder if any attempt was made to speak to him before the post was made. If not, Sister Crystal became guilty of the very thing she accused Brother Stauffer of doing. I know first-hand that Brother Stauffer spent HOURS with the vast majority of the people that left and that he did try to help a good number of those people until it became obvious that they NEEDED to leave. In fact, some of those people are already experiencing new troubles at their new church.

 

I am trusting that you and Crystal will make this right with Brother Stauffer. Truly, an apology is owed him and really the church, but let’s start with Brother Stauffer. After all, he did do, in most cases, what Crystal said should be done and I did so with all the others except for those who offered no real opportunity.

 

I actually saw this coming, to be honest. Sometime back, it was brought to my attention that you all have been fellowshipping quite a bit with some who have left. As a man with a family, I could see the handwriting on the wall of how that would adversely affect Sister Crystal.  I think now we are seeing the fruit of that. I AM NOT THE HEAD OF YOUR HOUSEHOLD and can only advise, but if you want to change the course of criticism and negativity. I would recommend that you break off those ties. You have only heard one side of the issues because I have refused to speak ill of those who left.

 

As a result of the negativity and assumptive nature of Sister Crystal’s post, I am going to remove her as a friend from my family’s FB accounts. In particularly, that was very detrimental for my daughter to see. Much confidence in and respect for has been lost for Crystal, especially when you all know so little of what truly transpired from September to the end of the year. That post last night hurt Mary [named changed for privacy] deeply and felt like betrayal from someone who had no idea how much hypocrisy got demonstrated against her less than a year ago. I could tell you all that happened, but that would make me stoop to the level of those who sought to hurt our church, my family, and destroy the Lord’s work out of our church that is going on all across the world. I refuse to rehash everything and tell you what all was done, but apparently those  who left are still at work.

 

In fact, they showed themselves on two different fronts yesterday alone. A connection to some who left popped up yesterday to stir up trouble and I had to counsel a young person through it. I promise you the portrayal of innocence is FAR FROM TRUE.

I love you brother and know you will do the right thing!

Philemon 21 Having confidence in this obedience I wrote unto thee, knowing that thou wilt also do more than I say.

 

Matt (June 4 at 12:13pm): Accidentally hit the like button when attempting to scroll. I am at work and have not had a moment’s notice to see/read anything. I already told Doc Doug that I will reach out to him while I am [on] break. I then asked him to stop messaging me at work. I will read and address ALL of this when I have time. Thank you.

Andrew: Thank you brother. I will let you be.

Matt (June 4 at 1:57pm): Still have not been on break, but doc doug said that church discipline is taking place until we are all able to meet. It has not been mentioned from the Leader of the church so I thought I would confirm it through you.

Is this accurate?

 

I have to return to work and will be checking for a response later.

Andrew (June 4 at 2:08pm): All that I have stated is that sister Olds will not serve in the nursery tonight and we will not have you greet tonight. If you have read sister Crystal’s post, I would assume you would understand why. Her post has sent much frustration through the congregation. In the least, brother Stauffer deserves an apology, but in reality the church deserves an apology.

[Last part of messages between Andrew Ray and Matthew Olds will be posted in “Continuation of Messages Between Matthew Olds and Pastor Andrew Ray“]

In this series I share my thoughts and opinions concerning these ministers and the events which led to my departure. Click here to continue reading: “Blindsided: Afternoon Phone Calls with Pastor Andrew Ray and Douglas Stauffer” or click on the link below.

For a list of the complete series, click here.

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Below, one will find the first set of messages between Douglas Stauffer, Matt Olds, and Crystal Olds (me) that started with Stauffer messaging us multiple times on Sunday evening, June 3, 2018, and ended at the time my husband came home on Monday evening, June 4, 2018. I would first like to draw your attention to the timeline of not only his voicemail and messages late into the evening (close to midnight), but also to how quickly he switched to accusing me of not heeding his “counsel,” merely fifteen minutes after his previous private message.

The harassment continued well into Monday morning and afternoon- and even into Tuesday- as Doug Stauffer continued to harass my husband for a response, despite Matt saying he was at work, to not contact him, and that he would call/message them when he was on break and when he was off from work. Even in the phone call in the afternoon between Matt and Stauffer, Stauffer repeatedly rebuked Matt for not responding sooner.

While Stauffer was esteemed, he did not- and never held- a place of authority at our church, though he attempted to twist Pastor Andrew Ray’s words to say that we “MUST” meet before my family attended any further services. We already did not attend the Bible Conference in the mornings because of Matt’s occupation and the fact that we had three young children, but we decided stay home for the Monday evening service, for Matt and I to finally be able to discuss  Stauffer’s ridiculous comments during the day, as well as Pastor Ray’s messages that I did not know about at the time.  

Facebook Messenger: Crystal Olds, Matthew Olds, and Douglas Stauffer

 

Douglas (Stauffer) (June 3 at 11:21pm): It is 11PM and I just left Matt a 3 ½ minute message on your phone. I am shocked at this method of creating “unity” in the church. You get upset at something that is said and you air those grievances on FB rather than going to the person directly? This is what you wrote:

“I know of families in times past (not recently) that have left literally for the sake of unity and to end the discord. Isn’t Matthew 18 about IF YOU HAVE AN ISSUE WITH A BROTHER, TAKE IT TO THEM, etc and then if they won’t hear one, then before two or three witnesses, then let them be accursed?

 

Did you not fail in the very point that you made? This hypocrisy is also condemned and creating the very discord that you are condemning. The problem is that we can assess other people’s problems and turn a blind eye toward our own.

We need  to need to meet tomorrow. My phone number is ***-***-****. I know that you are close to some of those who have left and that is fine. I had lunch with one couple recently and recently commented on an anniversary post of another.

 

I do not harbor any hard feelings toward ANYONE that left; however, I think any of them bashing the church is wicked. Additionally, I do not view the situation like you do because I also know so much more about some of the details concerning how a situation was blown out of proportion in order to leave. The church needs to be unified and I do not know one person that left over doctrinal matters.

 

You can choose this FB mode of dividing the church but I can promise you that you are not more innocent than anyone that something that you did not like. Maybe what was said in your view was ill-advised and for that I apologize, but I hope you also see that your divisive comments are quite the same.

Douglas (June 3 at 11:21pm): Furthermore, I suggest you take down the post in the mean time or hide it until we can meet. After we meet you will have taken the matter (so to speak) to me and be more free to use FB for this mode of communicating grievances. Personally, I think it is the 21^st century definition of 1 Corinthians chapter 3.

 

Douglas (June 3 at 11:36pm): And since you have seen my messages and not done as I have asked in hiding this post until you have responded scripturally by meeting this would seem to indicate you feel justified in how you have handled the situation. It is likely that your public tirade is just an attention seeking ploy rather than an attempt to fix what you perceive is a wrong. Don’t you have the responsibility to do as Matthew 18 instructs? Or do you think God created Facebook for disgruntled church members to spout their disagreements for the world- lost and saved- to see?

Crystal (June 4 at 12:41am): [Thumbs up]

Crystal (June 4 at 12:41am): Accidentally hit the “like”

 

Douglas (June 4 at 8:37am): We need to meet today before the services. What is most convenient for you?

Matt (Matthew Olds) (June 4 at 9:06am): I am working and cannot talk at this time. I will call you when I am on break.

Douglas (June 4 at 9:06am): [Thumbs up}

 

 

Douglas (June 4 at 11:44am): Unfortunately, I was just told that the comments were simply hidden from view from a select group rather than deleted or completely blocked from any view. That is a shame because now the focus is upon this divisive FB post and putting a damper on the whole meeting.

We have found replacements for the nursery and greeter tonight and we MUST meet prior to your attending any further services.

I guess I am shocked at the quote of going to the person first when the person making the comments is guilty of that very sin.

 

Matt (June 4): Again I am at work. I do not know what you are talking about. I have not even been able to look at these “comments.” I will call when I am on break and we will discuss a [possible] time to meet. I do not know when it will be as this week is proving to be very busy. Please stop messaging me while I am work. I will call you. Thanks

Matt (June 4): Due to my line of work, I am not sure when my break will be…

Crystal (June 4 at 12:06pm): I will step in and say that I was looking at changing the privacy and thought I had just exited out of it because I got interrupted. It’s back to how it was before now. Thank  you for letting me know.

 

Crystal (June 4 at 1:29pm): I misread your comment earlier. Pastor has made a replacement for nursery and greeting?

Douglas (June 4 at 3:22pm): I will answer your question and explain a bit although Matt has asked for this not to happen while he is at work. We need to meet before service attendance by you. You have hurt many people that were hurt by some of the people you felt compelled to defend publicly because you took offense to a statement made in response to a meeting recently that you know nothing about.

 

The problem is that you don’t know the history behind anything. you have simply chosen to post a divisive comment against a member(s) in your church and then hide the comment from us (and presumably Matt since he said he too could not see the comment) yet others who were not excluded from seeing it. You were asked to take it down and rejected that counsel.

We have a very serious problem and one that will require some maturity and humility on your part. At present, I understand that replacements have been found for the greeting and the nursery tonight since no signs of reconciling have been offered.

 

You really have no clue as to the young people affected by your facebook post and you [may] never because generally these things are NOT put forth publicly by those who know since it is not wise to use this forum to make everyone aware of all the sordid details.

Matt (June 4 at 4:29pm): So is this “church discipline” coming from you or pastor?

 

Douglas (June 4 at 5:05pm): Matt: What is the “church discipline” that you are referring to? If Bro. Ray made the decision that he feels that such an egregious act means that he does not want you or your wife involved in things until there is some sort of recognition of the wrong, would you find this unreasonable? I guess we are a bit surprised at this response for someone so disgruntled to publicly voice such opposition to the preaching in one’s home church. That was one statement made that was off the cuff and reflected upon a meeting I had reaching out to someone that had left and I left the meeting disgusted with how they bashed the song book and those working on it. Preachers are human too.

 

(I wrote this you before you called.)

Matt (June 4 at 5:36pm): Ok. My wife and I are talking now.

 

 

In this series I share my thoughts and opinions concerning these ministers and the events which led to my departure. Click here to continue reading: “Blindsided: Private Messages Between Matthew Olds and Pastor Andrew Ray” or click on the link below.

For a list of the complete series, click here.

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