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Someone asked something the other day, and since then I keep thinking about the incident that changed my view of the bible and of certain doctrines of my former church completely.

Before I left my former church, I had joined a discussion board that was supposed to be for people who believed like I did. Through the next months, I’d realized that the people who were kindest were NOT the ones I would ever fellowship in person because, though they exhibited the most fruit of the spirit (love joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, gentleness, and self control) they didn’t dress the way I thought they should, went to places I didn’t think any Christian should, and even did things and said things I didn’t think any Christian would. It blew my mind that they were the ones, these that I would have judged in person as least Christian, could actually be the most Christ-like.

About nine months after I left my former church, a question was raised on that board about baptism. These questions were typical on the board, but this time one woman was very adamant about her position, and she put others down if she felt they disagreed with her on any point. I didn’t get involved at first, but after awhile she said something that made no sense at all, even from our shared viewpoint. I said something about that. She assumed I was disagreeing with her stance on baptism, and for the next several pages of discussion argued with me about something I already believed! She was so convinced in her mind, just as I’d once been, that if a person didn’t agree with me on everything, they must not be a “real” Christian.

And so we went on to have a several page ‘discussion’ that ended with me radically changing my beliefs and my understanding of several passages. So in short, a Oneness Pentecostal argued so ridiculously for what she believed (and was determined I didn’t) that she actually converted me FROM that doctrine, rather than to it. And she did a really good job of it!

I’ve experienced the same multiple times since. The harder someone argues for their views without listening to any others or even stopping to see what the other person DOES believe, the more likely they are to drive me away from their viewpoint, no matter how much I believed in it. It’s crazy now, looking back on that thread, because what she was saying doesn’t even make logical sense. I see where she inserted a bunch of emojis, particularly when she thought she’d made her point… and unfortunately most often where those points had actually fallen shortest. She really thought she was doing something, posting as she was. I notice the many times she would get upset by a question, restate her point, and then go off on an emotional tangent about how her view was directly connected to how great God was and how she had the truth. And I know there have been times in my life when I did, too. Now I realize that all of my arguments for what I believed must have sounded absolutely stupid to anyone who didn’t believe them. Worse, I was certainly proud of them… and I think that pride probably made them even more off-putting.

I want to post part of the conversation, but it is quite lengthy and dizzying in it’s ‘rabbit trails’. What’s incredible to me though is not how convoluted the whole thing got. It’s that she, in all her pride and zeal, actually preached me away from what she thought I had to believe to be saved, even after I told her I believed it. A United Pentecostal actually taught me why the UPC teaching of Jesus name baptism as the only right baptism was wrong.

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This is a continuation from Part 1.  Thoughts are based off the article, Are Apostolics Pharisees? written by Gary R. Trzcinski, which appeared in the September 1996 Pentecostal Herald (now called Pentecostal Life, the official magazine of the United Pentecostal Church) which addressed the issue of whether Apostolics (Oneness Pentecostals) were Pharisees. The author gave 29 points as to why they were not.

Below is a quote from the article:

It would have been better for him to use the word modest or immodest as compared to worldly or the world. This thinking about ‘the world’ has been carried to extremes. People use many things which are of ‘the world’ such as houses, cars, toothbrushes, banks, electricity, and so forth—so are we to refrain from *everything* worldly? This is what they try to teach concerning dress and a few other things, but they are inconsistent with its application.

With all the varying cultures, it would be pretty impossible to dress in a manner in which everyone would give 100% approval. For instance, while the UPC women may wear long dresses or skirts, they wear various bright colors. To an Amish woman, this would be improper. How the Amish woman dresses would be immodest to a woman in a strict Islamic group.

It is interesting to note that the missionaries of the UPCI are told not to attempt to change the culture of the countries to which they are sent. (In fact, I have heard that the UPC in other countries is different than here in North America in that they don’t have all the same prohibitions.) Yet in North America where the organization is headquartered, they attempt to do the opposite by teaching things contrary to our culture. While pants are culturally acceptable for women to wear, they teach women are not to wear them.

“Apostolics have truly endeavored to teach and practice those traditions found in the Word of God. Critics may disagree with us concerning our understanding of modesty, for example, and call it human tradition, but Apostolics are making a sincere effort to practice modesty in spite of the world’s traditions.” All Christians should be modest. But where the UPC goes wrong is they attempt to define for everyone what is and is not considered modest and then claim these things are biblical. Worse yet, their own ministers and churches cannot agree on what is modest or acceptable.

Visit one of their churches and they teach that sleeves must be to the wrist, while another will teach somewhere else on the arm. While one church will proclaim that a woman cutting her hair could put her in jeopardy of hell, another does not. One church teaches men are to be clean shaven and the next allows facial hair. One church teaches you may wear a wedding ring and the one in the next town forbids it. They try to wiggle around these inconsistencies by claiming each pastor has the authority to set the standards in their church as they see fit. Yet if what they teach is truly “those traditions found in the Word of God,” then why would there be all these differences between their churches? Claiming these outward standards are based on traditions found in the Bible is incorrect. We find no Scriptures giving specifics on sleeve length, no prohibition against jewelry or make-up, or pants on women, etc., yet we are to believe that all they teach is spelled out in the Bible.

“Our critics, on the other hand, often look no different than the world. Maybe they have chosen to ignore the scriptural principles of modest dress.” Note the assumption made by the author. If you don’t see it as they do, then you’ve chosen to ignore what the Bible clearly teaches and of course you must be dressing immodestly. Then those who disagree are linked to ‘the world.’ I will point out again that their men often look no different than men in ‘the world.’ Where in Scripture is it taught that in dress Christians must look different from those around us? I don’t see any mention where Jesus or the disciples dressed any differently from the other people. Nor do we read something like, “And the people of Galatia immediately knew they were Christians because they dressed in a much different manner than the people who did not know Christ.” If there were such a difference in how Jesus dressed, Judas wouldn’t have needed to point him out as he did when he betrayed him, but would have explained how they would recognize him by the difference in his attire.

“Or maybe their definition of modesty is not much different from the world’s definition. Evidently, they have ignorantly or willingly chosen to follow the worldly traditions of fallen humanity.” Here is yet another negative assumption. It is interesting how it must be one or the other and not that some may simply view the issue differently than they do.

The Handbook of Life in Bible Times by J.A. Thompson states, “For all their piety, they placed great burdens of religious obligation on the ordinary people. They had lost the spirit of the law and turned devotion into a system. God became to them almost a machine, bound to bless the person who carried out the right rituals at the right time. Jesus’ concept of God, however, was of a loving Father who cared for people and provided for their needs, and who asked to be loved and obeyed from the heart and not simply to be recognized by outward and often empty ritual.” The name Pharisees implies ‘the separated ones.’ They wanted to be noticed when they prayed and wanted the best seats in the synagogue and at banquets. They made sure to look somewhat different (by broadening their phylacteries and lengthening their tassels) so they would stand out and be noticed. Jesus taught against them and told the people to beware of their teachings. He said they placed heavy burdens upon people. They defined God’s laws, when God did not state those things, such as dictating what constituted work on the Sabbath and what didn’t. Don’t these things sound like what the United Pentecostal Church has done?

The Pharisees and Apostolics Part 3

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It was camp time, and I, as usual, didn’t have much money for the fancy evening clothes that most people my age would be wearing. Looking through the thrift stores, I found one dress. It met all the requirements: 3/4 sleeves, mid calf, not too fitted, high necked. It was a beautiful antique green-gray with a cream background, and it fit me perfectly.

Since having been kicked out of my previous church because my former pastor “felt in his spirit” that I was “lusting after” him, I hadn’t felt like looking very pretty. I had started, in my mid 20s,  dressing in bulky dress jumpers a size or two too large, in dull or dark colors. This wasn’t modesty, though I didn’t know it then. It was humiliation and depression and a very unhealthy body image.

I wanted to look pretty in a way, but I was also very embarrassed about looking good. Wasn’t that immodest? Would I look sexy? I never wanted to be accused of causing a man to lust again. But I also wanted to look attractive. I saw other women my age at church. They didn’t dress like I did, and they weren’t accused. They were admired. And then I found the dress.

I questioned whether I should buy it. It looked absolutely great on me… and I wasn’t sure if that was great or terrible. But I loved it so much and I loved the way I looked in it. So I bought it. And the last night of camp, I wore it. I was a little self conscious in it, because I knew I looked good, but worried that it showed my figure more than my bulky jumpers, but I was also very happy with it. And so I shouted through the Friday night service and went back home the next day, very happy with my week.

And then came Sunday morning. The pastor’s wife taught our Sunday School class, and that morning she dedicated the class time to discussing how someone in the class had worn something terrible on Friday night. It was too fitted. It showed way too much. The person who wore it should have worn a girdle. She was so embarrassed for her…. For me. I was a size 6-8. I was 20-something with no kids. I’d never married. And the dress, apparently, though she never named me, was bad. I never wore the dress again.

Looking back now, I have to wonder what her problem was. I wasn’t dressed badly. I actually was dressed more like everyone else than I’d been in several years. I met all the rules of the dress code. Did she pick up on my self consciousness and exploit it? Was she jealous? Or was it just pure spite? If she was really embarrassed for me, if she really cared, wouldn’t she have come to me privately and expressed her concern, rather than spending Sunday morning detailing her embarrassment of the unnamed person to the class? (And wouldn’t she have done the same for whoever it was, if it wasn’t me?)

I wonder these thing now, looking back. I recently lost weight and needed new clothes. The ones I had were so large they were falling off of me. And every time I go to try on clothes that really fit, I think of that dress from nearly 20 years ago, when I was condemned for feeling pretty.

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I was reading an article which appeared in the September 1996 Pentecostal Herald (now called Pentecostal Life, the official magazine of the United Pentecostal Church) which addressed the issue of whether Apostolics (Oneness Pentecostals) were Pharisees. The author gave 29 points as to why they were not, the majority of which do not relate to anything I have ever seen applied to them in regard with being Pharisaical. For instance, he mentions the Pharisees were outraged that Jesus healed on the Sabbath–and of course, Apostolics wouldn’t do likewise. (Yet if some stayed home on a church night, there are Apostolics who would become enraged.)

The article was entitled Are Apostolics Pharisees? and was written by Gary R. Trzcinski, an ordained minister in the UPCI. How would you respond to the following?

While some may believe this, is it what we see? Do we see people in the UPC dressing this way in order to avoid the wrath of others within their church? Do we see them dressing this way in order to keep their position in the church or to not be viewed as backslid or in rebellion? How many there change their dress because of what others thought or because they didn’t want to take the chance that their salvation may rest upon their keeping these dress codes? If all this is taking place, how then is it dressing for the approval of God?

What he fails to note is that many Apostolics dress for the approval of their pastor and/or other church members. Some dress that way because they have been taught that to do otherwise will cause them to be lost. [While many will claim they do not teach standards as matters of salvation, the manner in which some teach them shows otherwise. One Apostolic recently demonstrated this when he wrote in a discussion board, “Holiness standards will not save you by themselves, but you will be lost without them.”] Others dress that way, not because they believe it is what God wants of them, but do so because they feel they must obey the pastor. Some do it simply to fit in with other church members. And there are others who follow these rules because they must in order to participate in certain church activities, like sing in the choir or teach Sunday School. To believe that all Apostolics follow these teachings “for the approval of God” is to be blind to all the other reasons.

“Apostolics in modern Western cultures, on the other hand, are often criticized and harassed for their modest-length apparel and gender-distinctive clothing.” I think that more so, people on the outside view some of their apparel as strange, old-fashioned, out of place and at times even immodest or dangerous. (Think climbing up ladders in a dress or skirt or swimming in jean skirts.) I don’t believe the average person goes around harassing them. In fact, their men don’t stand out from many in society. It’s the women that get hit the most with these outward teachings.

While some think people will be attracted by how the women stand out, it sometimes repels people. I am reminded of an incident that happened to a friend after they had left their Apostolic church. She was in a store one evening when she witnessed a woman from her former church verbally ripping into a clerk for doing what her manager said instead of doing what she demanded. After she left, my friend went up to the clerk hoping to say something that would let her know that it was OK and that she would stand up for her if need be. The clerk looked my friend up and down- she was still dressing like she had in her Apostolic church, just as the rude woman was-  and she drew back with such pain and fear on her face.

Through the years I have also heard instances where Apostolics have treated wait staff at restaurants very poorly and were stingy with tips, sometimes not leaving anything or leaving a tract. I witnessed this myself with some members of my former UPCI church. Sometimes Apostolics will come in a large group to eat after a service, but not long before a restaurant is going to close. While they would recognize them coming by their clothing, employees would cringe when they saw them, knowing what was to come.

Of course these examples do not apply to every Apostolic. I personally have no problem with anyone who wishes to dress the way the UPC teaches; go right ahead. But don’t force it on others, don’t judge or look down on those who do not dress likewise, don’t teach these as biblical mandates, and don’t attach anyone’s salvation to following them. That is when these beliefs become problematic and abusive.

The person who wrote this article ignored the reason for the most criticism they receive. That is because of what I just shared about not teaching them as biblical mandates or forcing them on others, etc. In this manner, they are like the Pharisees. The Pharisees had additional rules and regulations for what God had set up. These were often placed on an equal or even higher level than the Scriptures. When you say things like “you will be lost without following these,” you are adding to what the Bible teaches and following in the footsteps of the Pharisees.

“It would be much easier to surrender to the sensual trends of the world, but we have chosen rather to submit to the Word of God (Deuteronomy 22:5; Isaiah 47:1-3; 1 Timothy 2:9-10; 1 Peter 3:3-5).”

I won’t address each of the verses presented as none of them teach their prohibitions. Note how when it comes to things of ‘the world’ they can pick and choose. TV was a big no-no, but grab that computer and go into cyberspace. The same reasoning they used to ban TV can be used for the Internet and computers–and even to a greater extent. When ministers were not permitted to own a television set, some did anyway, hiding it in their home and yet teaching against it in services.

They aren’t supposed to be going to Hollywood produced movies, but many watch them on their phone or YouTube or rent the DVD. They aren’t supposed to be like the world and yet some will dress in expensive designer clothing (or worse yet, counterfeit items), use Coach handbags and wear alligator shoes. Some women wear things in their hair that would be condemned to wear as jewelry on their clothing or body.

There have been ministers which taught vehemently against certain things but when it came to their children, the rules changed. There have been women who have cut their hair, yet wear it up to conceal that fact. In this manner, they are once again like the Pharisees, guilty of hypocrisy.

The Pharisees and Apostolics Part 2
The Pharisees and Apostolics Part 3

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In August 2018, the blog section of the spiritual abuse website had 9,374 visits, with 5,873 being unique. Below are the top ten read posts for August from five different authors. I have not included the giveaway posts. I am also adding the top ten accessed pages from the main website.

We are always looking for new people to join our group of bloggers, so please consider registering and watch your email for more information. How frequently you post is up to you. Let your voice be heard and help others recover. You may even find it therapeutic. Read here for more information.

Woman ‘in the Spirit’ on a Jamaican Flight – author Lois (accessed 481 times) – The false story surrounding this post went viral again in July. It is amazing what people will blindly believe and never fact check.

Afraid to leave… afraid to stay – author Through Grace (accessed 429 times)

Reading the Bible after it was used to control and abuse you – author There Is Life  (accessed 413 times)

 The United Pentecostal Church and Sexual Abuse – author Lois (accessed 369 times)

A Few Of My Favorite Things…. – author Nana5

Coping with the Cults – Part #1 – Separation – author Dividing His Word

Surviving the ‘You cannot be saved if…’ Gospel – author Dividing His Word

Scrupulosity – Obsessive fear of sinning – You are not crazy! – author There Is Life

Struggles with faith and doubt – author Through Grace

The Elders – What an Unsavory Bunch of Men – author There Is Life

And from the main website, the top ten pages:

Make-up and Fingernail Polish are a Sin

Sexual Abuse Cases In United Pentecostal Churches

Oneness Versus Trinity

Does the Bible Say it’s Wrong for Women to Cut their Hair?

The United Pentecostal Church & Lee Stoneking at the United Nations

The UPCI and the Movie Borat

United Pentecostal Church International Beliefs

Scriptures Prohibiting the Wearing of Pants by Women?

Anthony Mangun: That is Why I am for Television

Nathan Dudley & The Faith Tabernacle Apostolic Church in Junction City, Kansas

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