Category: speaking in tongues | Page 7

Pausing for a moment

I want to pause a moment from my other series and discuss on something major. Please feel free to offer insight as this subject is something I ponder and study quite often. The subject of tongues.

As I mentioned in my previous writings of “I Just Couldn’t Stay” this is kind of vulnerable for me to write about. My main questions are do tongues have to be an actual language for it to be real, or validated? How about where did the doctrine of the tongues in Acts are different from the tongues in Corinthians? I need some scriptures that say just that to see to difference.

Why is ok to add to the scripture the phrase “with the evidence of speaking in tongues” when it is not there at all? Yes, they spoke in tongues, but it doesn’t say “You shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in tongues.” How come no other apostle in the New Testament spoke about tongues other than Paul? Why didn’t the others speak on it, especially the ones that where there on Pentecost day? If you have reference where they did please let me know.

I can remember some of the teachings and experiences on tongues in my former churches. The church I attend now believes in the “evidence of speaking in tongues” but not as a requirement for salvation. Salvation happens at repentance and placing ones’ faith in Jesus.

I ask these questions because I struggled in my early walk with Jesus. Most of the time what I heard come out of my mouth was not an actual language. When I asked about it was sometimes said “It’s okay mines sound different as well.” Then how is tongues languages? Does it have to be languages or what?

In Acts tongues were clear cut languages that were understood on the day of Pentecost. I go back to Pentecost because if you hold to the soteriology of Acts 2:38 then those tongues are what is important to get you saved. The tongues in Corinthians are just for a few folks who have the Holy Ghost. You can see where someone would be very concerned if they aren’t speaking something just right. If our whole salvation is based on water and Spirit doctrine, and tongues is what lets us know if we have the Spirit and you can’t get the Holy Ghost without speaking in tongues, then we better make sure it is done right, right?

I have heard ministers say some people fake tongues in their churches. I have so many things I could say about that but I’m not. During my early years, I can assure you I was not faking. I tried my best to speak in what I thought at the time was tongues. I would panic if I didn’t speak in tongues on a daily or weekly basis. When I told the pastor, who talked to me after my conversion that I got the Holy Ghost I was not faking. I truly believed I had gotten the Holy Ghost and no one was going to tell me different. I wasn’t going to spend the next few months and years fighting at the altar.

However, as time grew on I doubted that. I didn’t hear languages. I heard something I can’t explain. I prayed and prayed that God would give me a new tongue. After a while I believed he did. I was fine for awhile. Then I become enamored with tongues. It was a big deal to me. I reasoned that my whole salvation was tongues. If I didn’t speak in tongues I was not saved. When I went down to pray I would get horrible headaches from praying so hard to “stir up the gift that was inside me” ie. tongues. I hated to pray sometimes at home, for prayer meant tongues. Tongues, tongues, tongues, I had to have them. Forget faith, that was for only financial needs, healing needs, marriage needs, my husband to get saved needs, tongues were for salvation. I didn’t even know how to have faith for my salvation. Who needed that when you had tongues?

I would see people be in church for months and years to receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. The teachings I would hear on it was some didn’t get it because they had hidden sin. They were hiding hidden anger, porn, or whatever that kept them from getting it. One story was about a cop and God expected so much out of him because he carried a gun to work so he had to really get with it to get the Holy Ghost. I am not saying these stories are not true, I wasn’t there when the stories where taking place, only there to hear tell about them.

My questions are why does God make it so hard for one to get saved? Why do we have to get perfect for him to give us his Gift of the Spirit? I have some new beliefs on tongues and the Holy Spirit. Still sorting out some things on it though. What say you?….

Just Couldn’t Stay Part 3

Continued from Part Two.

Now I am fifteen and am starting to be attentive to preaching. At this point in my life I didn’t fully understand or know what my theology was. I believed that Jesus was God’s son, people could get the Holy Ghost without speaking in tongues, baptism was something that Christians just did and you were saved at repentance. Oh, and living holy was like, live it or burn forever. So, we started at this new United Pentecostal church and like I said earlier they quickly let us know we were not in the truth. They constantly sang songs of the oneness of God, talked about speaking in tongues more than I had ever heard talked about in my life.

My mom and I were like okay great. But it wasn’t great. You see it was not this is what we believe and you can choose it, it was more like this is what we believe and you better jump on the wagon as well. My mother and I at the time were the only ones attending church. My dad had long stopped going and my only sibling was doing their own thing. So, my mom and I quickly got set up for a bible study. That’s when it all came out. The oneness of God. (insert disclaimer: I am not discrediting the belief of the oneness of God, I am still sorting out that belief, however I am saying that it was shoved down our throats and made a salvation issue.) After this bible study my mom and I went home and discussed it. I don’t remember us coming to a conclusion at that point. However, I do remember the pressure we received before we finally relented or just stop asking questions.

Fast forward to me being eighteen and I just couldn’t stay any longer in my parents’ home. The con-stringent rules were driving me over board. My mother and I constantly fought. If the church had UPC standards my mother had commands and demands, if one was going to live in her house you live by her rules. So, I left home and moved in with another family member.

It was during that time I meet my first real boyfriend. I was eighteen and free at last free at last… and well you know the rest of that. That boyfriend became what I come to know now as my husband. He describes those times when I first meet him as a rebel without a cause. I was trying to live out eighteen confined years in six months. He calmed me down and gave me balance when I didn’t know what that was.

We lived our first few years of marriage in bliss. No, really we did. After a while I noticed God dealing with me. I don’t think God ever left me, as much as it was me leaving him. I stopped having a relationship with HIM. My mom invited me back to church and I went. That second Sunday that I attended at the end of service she let me know she believed in the oneness of God. She gave me a story of how she came to believe that. Immediately I felt hot and angry. I remembering feeling like I had been lied to all my life. Keep in mind I didn’t search out scripture to see if this was true, I was just mad.

At that point I started praying and I remember a small voice in my head say “Why not repent you are already praying.” I remember thinking why not so I did. Now here is the deal after that….oh goodness it’s hard to explain. Let me try my best. I remember my mouth shaking, from me or some other force I don’t know. Then everyone was cheering and my mom was like “The Holy Ghost is all over you just speak it out.” So I guess that is what they call stammering lips, tongues, or the infilling. The pastor came and talked to me and I quickly said I got the Holy Ghost for fear of the church badgering me for months and years about getting it. I had seen people go through that and I was for one not going to. My whole niche about that was I truly believe I got “saved” at repentance when it was just me and the still small voice without the crowds and the cheering.

I started attending church regularly and started “living the part.” On the contrast, I couldn’t for the life of me when they started teaching that everybody was going burn in Hell but us believe that. I couldn’t for the life of me tolerate the hatred when they talked about Trinitarians. I couldn’t for the life of me understand why my husband didn’t jump on the band wagon with me. Eventually I let my brain die and picked up everybody else’s. I ceased to exist any longer. Their thoughts became my thoughts, their actions became my actions, their beliefs my beliefs. I was so caught up in it all I forgot to stop, think, read, and reason.

I might also add this was a time in my marriage I started to view my husband as an enemy. He didn’t believe the way I did, he didn’t attend church all the time like I did. Let’s just put it out there plain, he didn’t become indoctrinated like I did. That was the beginning of my own UPC experience. I was attending church for myself. I really did love the Lord and wanted to be a Christian. However, I was always confused on still what saved me, was I going to make to heaven? Was I doing enough? I had so much conviction it turned into heartburn. But there I was in church the first to run the aisles, pray, encourage the others, sign up for everything going on try and get in good with the pastor and his family. It was hard work and tiring. All while leaving my family at home. Day after day disconnecting myself from my husband because he wasn’t bandwagon man. He wasn’t a minister, pastor, evangelist, department head, musician or anybody important. He didn’t act like the men at church all holy and stuff. He was just, himself. Heartbreaking as it is I wasn’t myself at all…..

To be continued.

Living for God should not be so hard

Why is it so hard to worship God or have any kind of walk with Him?

I ran across a statement similar to this not long ago, I forget where.

The church I was in, when I was first there, seemed to be fun and I had no idea that worship could be so much fun. But then…but then. We had to be there (in church) as it was a requirement. Didn’t we love God enough? We had to shout and dance and cavort. Didn’t we love God? We had to be there at social functions like a pot luck – 100% attendance for the whole church. Saturday morning visitation in the freezing cold and wind in winter and the hot (95 at 10 am) humid mornings in summer. It was another requirement. After all, didn’t we love God?

If we were not jumping around during song service we were not worshiping. Sometimes the altar calls went to 11 pm. Most of us had jobs we had to go to Monday morning (and Tuesday through Friday too). And get up at 5 am to go to the church to pray before going to work. And then the revivals. One year we were having so many revivals I was nearly exhausted but that didn’t matter. Didn’t we love God?

Then there were the standards of dress and hair. Don’t cut your hair. Don’t even trim off one split end. Don’t even pull out the hard knot, pick it out gently (obviously said by men who had short hair). Skirts down to the ankle. A lot of the young women liked the “pencil” skirts and shuffled along. I sometimes hoped there was not an emergency where they had to RUN out of the church to save their lives. Splits in skirts had to be sewn down to the hem line. (Then one day the Pastor said we could sew them down to 4 inches below the knee which helped some). Sleeves down to the wrist. In our hot Kansas summers we could wear sleeves to just below the elbow. It was still too hot.

If you cut your hair you lose power. If you wore your skirt and sleeves too short someone was bound to be lusting after your knees and elbows. Give a Bible study or go to the “Bad Place.” Speak in tongues every single day so you know you still have the Holy Ghost. Pray an hour a day, everyday. Invite someone to church – oh the contests, we had to see who’d bring the most visitors! Read the Bible through every year.

The list just went on and on. I had lost sight of my Jesus. I did not like what I was becoming – judgmental about those who did not come to our church, the one with the Truth. No other church had the truth like we did. I remember sitting on the pew for awhile, thinking, “Where is Jesus? Where have they put Him?”

At one time, I was told salvation is so easy (pre-Pentecost days): Just believe on the Lord, He is savior and He died on the cross. The cross had all but disappeared. Like Fudge’s book: Christianity Without the Cross. Where had the simplicity of salvation gone? Why was it so complicated?

It was man’s rules that dimmed the hope of salvation and grace. Man’s rules that tried to keep people in control and in a church building. We were told God only lives here in this place. And we believed all this.

I don’t read my Bible every day now. But sometimes I pick it up and read a bit and it seems to mean more than when I rushed to read x chapters every night and felt guilty if I missed a few days reading.

Why should we feel so guilty if we didn’t follow all the rules? Why should we feel ashamed? Jesus did not preach that. Paul did not preach that. The Bible does not teach us to be/feel that way. Jesus really got onto the Pharisees about all their rules and regulations. Why do we need all that?

We don’t. Building a relationship with anyone should not be contingent on rules and regulations And so it goes with God. He loves us unconditionally. No conditions except that we worship him only and know that Jesus is the one who paid the ultimate price. That is why He said “It is Finished” and died.

I only hope and pray that those who are still following so many rules will see the light in Jesus and stop all the nonsense.

Informational post on speaking in tongues #10

This is just a little ‘did you know’ informational post on the subject of speaking in tongues, shared as some food for thought. It is for those reading this blog series who wish to know my beliefs.

I believe in the gifts of the Spirit, including speaking in tongues, and that they are available today. In addition to the nine often focused upon in Pentecostal churches (1 Corinthians 12), the Bible does mention others. Nowhere can I find where the Bible teaches that tongues are necessary evidence of Spirit baptism or a matter of salvation.

There is a wrong overemphasis on speaking in tongues in some churches (as well as an equal lack of emphasis regarding other gifts), in addition to their misuse, like there was among the Corinthian believers. The Bible says very little about speaking in tongues, with the most being found in 1 Corinthians 12 & 14, where correction and teaching were given by Paul.

I believe the Bible teaches that tongues do not have a place in a gathering of believers unless there is an accompanying interpretation or unless there are those present who understand the language(s) being spoken, such as in Acts 2. This is based upon what Paul taught in 1 Corinthians 12-14 with regard to the gifts.

Nowhere in the Bible do I see speaking in tongues as anything more than one of many gifts of the Spirit that a believer might possibly receive. Paul showed that all do not speak in tongues and that we should desire gifts that edify all and not only ourselves.

In none of my blogs am I trying to discredit or say that speaking in tongues isn’t for today. They are not at all trying to take from anyone’s experience. What they ARE trying to do, is put tongues in what I believe to be their proper biblical place – one of many gifts of the Spirit a believer might or might not receive. I see it as nothing more and nothing less. They are also meant to bring attention to instances where things are read into the Bible and assumed, which leads to erroneous teachings. This includes the thought that tongues are an angelic or heavenly language or a groaning.

The main point I am trying to make with these posts is that in the Bible, there is nothing that tells or shows us that speaking in tongues is a matter of salvation, the initial sign of receiving God’s Spirit, or was expected and emphasized as it is today. The truth that it is mentioned so few times in the Bible, with the majority of them being Paul’s instructions on their proper use and showing how they were misused by a group of believers, shows that today’s overemphasis on them- especially in saying they are mandatory- is in error.

We have been taught things about this subject that are not true, often have not compared our practices with what we see in the Bible, and many can only see the teachings and passages through what their church teaches. It is important to allow the scriptures to speak for themselves and not be seen through the glasses of any church or organization.

Informational post on speaking in tongues #9

This is just a little informational post on the subject of speaking in tongues, shared as some food for thought. This addresses the doctrine of ‘initial evidence’ as taught by the United Pentecostal Church.

If speaking in tongues is the initial evidence of receiving the Spirit (I am speaking of Oneness Pentecostal teachings here), then why do so many also expect continued evidence after one initially speaks in tongues? (Note: I know that all Apostolics do not practice or believe the above in regard to the necessity of ongoing tongues.)

As mentioned in a prior post, we never see again that those who spoke in tongues in Acts 2, 10 & 19 ever did it a second time. And yet many proponents of this teaching not only expect to see this happen initially, but also expect to see its regular continued use.

How many have been told to ‘pray through’ after doing something wrong or seemingly wrong or if you left their church for awhile? To these people, ‘pray through’ means to pray until tongues come again. They want proof that God’s Spirit is yet inside you. Maybe you need it yourself, too. There is no faith at all in this, proof is demanded. It is as if some believe God’s Spirit regularly hops in and out of believers.

Not only is there the thought to ‘pray through’ to tongues, there can also be things said from the pulpit like, “If you haven’t spoken in tongues in the past week (month, etc.), you had better check yourself!” Why? Where is faith? Do believers lose God so easily? Is God’s Spirit so fickle that at the slightest wrong, He up and leaves?

Things like these and more mean that the teaching is not simply initial evidence. It is really initial AND ongoing evidence to them. They have a need for a sign that they, and others, are still okay with God. This is not walking by faith or standing on God’s promise to never leave, nor forsake, believers.

Think about it. If tongues are indeed ‘initial evidence,’ why then is there such a push for the necessity of continuing to speak in tongues, especially when it is never found in scripture? When did you ever read Paul pressing believers to ‘pray through’ again till they spoke in tongues? When did Peter ever teach that if you haven’t spoken in tongues in a month that you’d better find out what is wrong? These doctrines are not taught, or seen as examples, in the Bible.

So, I say tell it like it really is. They don’t mean just initial evidence—they really mean initial AND ongoing evidence throughout your entire walk with God.