Category: Pentecostal | Page 5 | Spiritual Abuse Blogs

Pausing for a moment

I want to pause a moment from my other series and discuss on something major. Please feel free to offer insight as this subject is something I ponder and study quite often. The subject of tongues.

As I mentioned in my previous writings of “I Just Couldn’t Stay” this is kind of vulnerable for me to write about. My main questions are do tongues have to be an actual language for it to be real, or validated? How about where did the doctrine of the tongues in Acts are different from the tongues in Corinthians? I need some scriptures that say just that to see to difference.

Why is ok to add to the scripture the phrase “with the evidence of speaking in tongues” when it is not there at all? Yes, they spoke in tongues, but it doesn’t say “You shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in tongues.” How come no other apostle in the New Testament spoke about tongues other than Paul? Why didn’t the others speak on it, especially the ones that where there on Pentecost day? If you have reference where they did please let me know.

I can remember some of the teachings and experiences on tongues in my former churches. The church I attend now believes in the “evidence of speaking in tongues” but not as a requirement for salvation. Salvation happens at repentance and placing ones’ faith in Jesus.

I ask these questions because I struggled in my early walk with Jesus. Most of the time what I heard come out of my mouth was not an actual language. When I asked about it was sometimes said “It’s okay mines sound different as well.” Then how is tongues languages? Does it have to be languages or what?

In Acts tongues were clear cut languages that were understood on the day of Pentecost. I go back to Pentecost because if you hold to the soteriology of Acts 2:38 then those tongues are what is important to get you saved. The tongues in Corinthians are just for a few folks who have the Holy Ghost. You can see where someone would be very concerned if they aren’t speaking something just right. If our whole salvation is based on water and Spirit doctrine, and tongues is what lets us know if we have the Spirit and you can’t get the Holy Ghost without speaking in tongues, then we better make sure it is done right, right?

I have heard ministers say some people fake tongues in their churches. I have so many things I could say about that but I’m not. During my early years, I can assure you I was not faking. I tried my best to speak in what I thought at the time was tongues. I would panic if I didn’t speak in tongues on a daily or weekly basis. When I told the pastor, who talked to me after my conversion that I got the Holy Ghost I was not faking. I truly believed I had gotten the Holy Ghost and no one was going to tell me different. I wasn’t going to spend the next few months and years fighting at the altar.

However, as time grew on I doubted that. I didn’t hear languages. I heard something I can’t explain. I prayed and prayed that God would give me a new tongue. After a while I believed he did. I was fine for awhile. Then I become enamored with tongues. It was a big deal to me. I reasoned that my whole salvation was tongues. If I didn’t speak in tongues I was not saved. When I went down to pray I would get horrible headaches from praying so hard to “stir up the gift that was inside me” ie. tongues. I hated to pray sometimes at home, for prayer meant tongues. Tongues, tongues, tongues, I had to have them. Forget faith, that was for only financial needs, healing needs, marriage needs, my husband to get saved needs, tongues were for salvation. I didn’t even know how to have faith for my salvation. Who needed that when you had tongues?

I would see people be in church for months and years to receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. The teachings I would hear on it was some didn’t get it because they had hidden sin. They were hiding hidden anger, porn, or whatever that kept them from getting it. One story was about a cop and God expected so much out of him because he carried a gun to work so he had to really get with it to get the Holy Ghost. I am not saying these stories are not true, I wasn’t there when the stories where taking place, only there to hear tell about them.

My questions are why does God make it so hard for one to get saved? Why do we have to get perfect for him to give us his Gift of the Spirit? I have some new beliefs on tongues and the Holy Spirit. Still sorting out some things on it though. What say you?….

Just Couldn’t Stay Part 2

Continued from Part One.

It wasn’t just one thing that made me decide to leave as I mentioned yesterday, it was a compilation of many.

Alright back story time. I grew up in a ‘holiness’ church. Translation: any and everything will result in loss of salvation and send you to Hell. Things like fish net pantyhose, men with no ties on their shirts, crossing your legs in church for women, and popping your fingers because that is what the worldly people did to worldly music. Literally any and everything was a sin. Sin too many times and God would get tired of you and you would be “turned over to the devil.” All hope was lost at that point. You could have very well been bff’s with the Anti-Christ at that point. The list could go on and on.

Growing up my mother wouldn’t even participate in just everyday conversations at times because that would result in loss of salvation. I remember one time she yelled out in fear and anger “I’m not worried about those people I’m just trying to stay saved.” The reason for the outburst, my dad had just asked her if she remembered an old friend.

The deal is this ‘holiness’ group was not Apostolic Pentecostal aka Oneness Pentecostals. They were/are Trinitarians and believed in Matthew 28:19 literally. However, they were saved and we believed we were too at that time. They spoke in tongues, prophesied, danced in the Spirit, dressed and looked the part of UPC standards and obeyed the pastors every word.

We left that church for a time and started attending an United Pentecostal church across town, you know those Jesus only people. They did all the exact same things we did at our old church except for the “3 step salvation part.” I was only six at the time but I adored that little church. We didn’t stay there long though and I never knew why. So off we marched back to the Trinitarian holiness church.

For the most part that was my religious upbringing. The upbringing of fire and brimstone, blink twice and burn in hell, “God ain’t playing with y’all,” once saved barely saved, doubt your salvation every second of the day upbringing. How did I cope with it at the tender age of two till I could escape, suffer through a lot of psychology damage? It wasn’t until later in life I realized how catastrophic my view of God was.

When I was fifteen we decided to leave that church and organization for good. We visited another little UPC church in our town. They quickly let us know we had not been in the “truth.”

To be continued.

Examining Teachings #1: Drunk In The Spirit?

You may have seen people in Pentecostal type churches, acting like they were drunk during a service. Perhaps even the minister said something like, “We all need to get drunk in the Spirit!” Is this thought biblical? What passage is used to justify such behavior?

This is a good area to examine as there is a teaching that because some onlookers referred to those on the day of Pentecost as being drunk (Acts 2), that it must mean they were exhibiting drunken behavior such as we see allowed in some churches today. I believe this is far, far from the truth.

Since the Bible warns us against drunkenness, why would God cause a behavior which would make us appear to be exactly what he tells us we should not be? Stop and think about it. It makes no sense. The Bible warns us to abstain from the appearance of evil in 1 Thessalonians 5:22. In Galatians 5, we see a list of some of the acts of a sinful nature and drunkenness is listed. Furthermore, we see no biblical instances which show the type of behavior seen today which is termed being drunk in the Spirit.

Let’s look at Acts 2. Verse two shows us that they were sitting when the Holy Spirit came upon them. So what attracted others to go and see what was happening? Verse five says it was because the crowd heard the believers speaking in their own languages. If you were in a different country and heard someone speaking your language instead of that of the country you were visiting, it would likewise get your attention. It doesn’t mention anyone was slurring their speech or stumbling around or acting incoherent, laughing like people often do when they are drunk, or passed out on the floor. What attracted them was the sound they heard as they were hearing their native languages being spoken. This is made very clear in the passage.

This stirred conversation. They knew the believers shouldn’t be speaking in their languages. They questioned why and what it meant. This is when some mocked and proclaimed they had too much to drink. That remark was in reference to the speaking in tongues that they heard and not any drunken type behavior. Nowhere in Acts does it show believers as exhibiting any evidence of possible drunkenness.

Haven’t we ever heard someone give a lame reason for something which they observed but couldn’t understand? How would being drunk cause someone to be able to speak a foreign language they did not know? In no way does this passage give any indication that the believers were acting in a drunken manner as some teach today. This is when Peter and the other apostles stood up while Peter proclaimed Jesus to them and let them know that drunkenness had nothing to do with what was happening.

This teaching is one which really bothers me. The Bible is clear about the issue of drunkenness and being careful when drinking and that those who follow Christ should not drink excessively. It is evidence of our sinful nature, the works of the flesh, and not the fruit of the Spirit. There is absolutely no way that God would teach against this and then cause believers to act like they just finished drinking several Long Islands.

Some may also be interested in reading a related article: The Presence of God.

Examining Teachings #1: Drunk In The Spirit?
Examining Teachings #2: Jezebel and Shamefaced
Examining Teachings #3: Peculiar And Separate
Examining Teachings #4: What Must I Do To Be Saved?
Examining Teachings #5: Faith Without Works Is Dead

Pastors- Secure Your Continual Leadership

I had to pass this along after coming across it. I shook my head in disbelief upon seeing it. There is a ministry to help pastors “secure your continual leadership role within the local church with Apostolic By-Laws.” You read it right. It takes away all voting rights of members and puts the pastor in complete control. This is biblical, so it is proclaimed. It was ummm…. enlightening skimming the site.

This so-called Apostle’s church affiliation, is some prophetic type of Pentecostalism and he held license with the AOG. The wife, Balinda Deitz, is a so-called prophetess. Steve Deitz will help churches write or re-write their by-laws to make the church a ‘theocracy’ and give the pastor full power- all for a cost of just under $1300 for the full kit. [2023 update: The full kit price has jumped to $1995.] I believe for an additional cost, you can have this self-proclaimed Apostle and his other ministry be the church or pastor’s ‘covering.’ Just what unhealthy churches need- a way to ensure a pastor holds full power and control.

I also found basically the same site, without the apostle and prophetess titles at churchby-laws.com. [2023 note: That website is no longer in operation.] I don’t think by the use of ‘apostolic’ that they mean what Oneness organizations such as the United Pentecostal Church mean.

The link where this by-law kit is found is https://www.apostolicbylaws.com/home. But beware- they do threaten to sue and charge you attorney’s fees should you do a charge-back on your credit card after purchasing. [See here for the archived version where this was noted as it has since been removed from the page.] Oh, and deposits are non-refundable.

Don’t brag about your good deeds

Matthew 6:2-4 New Living Translation (NLT)

²When you give to someone in need, don’t do as the hypocrites do—blowing trumpets in the synagogues and streets to call attention to their acts of charity! I tell you the truth, they have received all the reward they will ever get. ³But when you give to someone in need, don’t let your left hand know what your right hand is doing. ⁴Give your gifts in private, and your Father, who sees everything, will reward you.

Today it is so easy to let a lot of people know what you are doing or not doing. Just go to your Facebook account and start typing (or what ever social media site you use). Then the ones who receive your message may decide to share your good deed and everything else with all their friends. Pretty soon it has gone around the world in about 15 minutes.

I have seen posts like this: “I am going out to buy Christmas gifts for a family whose kids would not have any Christmas otherwise. Pray that I find lots of sales!!” Then almost immediately there are the responses: “Oh what a wonderful person you are!” “How nice of you to do that for that family!” “God bless you as you go out to find the right gifts!” and etcetera.

According to scripture (above) that is all the blessings and praise that person will receive. They won’t get a special jewel in their crown for telling everyone they know what they are doing. (“I tell you the truth, they have received all the reward they will ever get.”)

I don’t know why people are this way except they need to have praise from men (people in general). I think it is they don’t know what Jesus has to say about it (Matthew 6:2-4). I saw and heard of this happening, maybe not a lot, but enough times in my own former church that it just made me cringe. Even before I left. I don’t mind someone showing a gift they are buying for a special person in their life but to brag and call attention to buying for a family who cannot afford to buy for their kids is just against Bible Scripture. (“Give your gifts in private, and your Father, who sees everything, will reward you.”) It does not or should not matter if anyone else knows you did this kind deed.

The Pharisees drew attention to themselves and would stop in the middle of the street and suddenly start to pray so they would get attention of those around them. In Pentecostalism this would be akin to suddenly bursting out in tongues in the middle of a busy mall or store. Just to get attention. Or jumping up in the middle of your place of work doing the same. Jesus did not have kind words to those he called hypocrites. Would you not rather please Jesus than man?

By the way Jesus is very much easier to please than any man or woman on earth. And that is the Truth!