Category: Pentecostal | Page 9 | Spiritual Abuse Blogs

Informational post on speaking in tongues #2

This is just a little ‘did you know’ informational post on the subject of speaking in tongues, shared as some food for thought. It goes along with a statement made in the first post: “Paul wanted the entire group of believers to be edified when they gathered together.”

Did you know the Bible teaches that when believers gather together, people should not be speaking in tongues all at the same time? Are you aware that the number of believers who should speak in tongues in a gathering should be limited to no more than three, with each speaking separately? Did you know that if anyone does speak in tongues at a service, they should only do so if someone is there to interpret? (That includes the pastor or guest minister, where many suddenly come out with tongues in the midst of speaking and there is no interpretation.)

Surprised? I imagine many are. Apostolic and Pentecostal churches encourage people to speak in tongues during gatherings. Yet if the apostle Paul were alive today, he would be telling them to stop this practice. He would consider this to be out of order and causing confusion to guests, just as he did with the church at Corinth. He taught that when believers were gathered together it should be with the purpose of everyone being edified. Tongues without interpretation does not edify the body of believers or the guests simply because they do not understand what is being spoken. This is why he encouraged those who spoke in tongues to also pray that they would be able to interpret, as was covered in the first post.

In 1 Corinthians 14:27-28 Paul wrote:

If anyone speaks in a tongue, it should be by two or at the most three, and each in turn, and one must interpret; but if there is no interpreter, he must keep silent in the church; and let him speak to himself and to God. NASB
If anyone speaks in a tongue, two—or at the most three—should speak, one at a time, and someone must interpret. If there is no interpreter, the speaker should keep quiet in the church and speak to himself and to God. NIV
If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret. But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God. KJV
No more than two or three should speak in tongues. They must speak one at a time, and someone must interpret what they say. But if no one is present who can interpret, they must be silent in your church meeting and speak in tongues to God privately. NLT

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Going to church

I went to a Baptist church and a Nazarene church this morning… mainly because the roads were bad and they weren’t that far apart, and partly because I was curious how they were different and similar. As my sister noted in an e-mail, each church, no matter the denomination, is different. So my experiences in these two doesn’t mean I think anything particularly about the denominations; these were just two churches I happened to go to.

One thing I have been surprised by is that church is boring. *blush* I haven’t sat in a service where one person was doing all the talking for almost two decades- stand, dance, hop, leap, kneel, clap, say “amen” and “preach,” yes, but not sit. None of the services I’ve been in so far are very, ah, interactive…

Neither of the churches today had ushers. Neither seemed to take attendance. Whew! I like that! One had several Pentecostal type actions and words- raised hands and such, the other had none. Both had a group of four to five people get up on the platform and sing all the songs, both had projectors with words on them. (I’ve seen this at every non-Pentecostal church I’ve been in recently.) Both had loooonnngggg prayers… I have to laugh to myself; I’m guessing I could get my sweet hour of prayer in just by attending an hour and a half denominational service! Pentecostals take prayer requests for longer, but these people pray, in minute detail, about every request. It isn’t just, “Oh, God, you know the needs! Thank you Jesus! Hallelujah! Amen!” They seriously pray for their requests- every one. I really like that. They act like they really believe every need and every person lifted up is important. I like that.

One, the preacher was kind of in charge even when he wasn’t leading, and in the other, the pastor actually made a joke about how it was OK to have him for lunch if people wanted to, and that people could correct him if they wanted to, as well. He seemed almost *gasp* human!

Every Pentecostal I know that will speak to me tells me I should “get back in church.” I know they would disagree with me about going to a Trinitarian church. That bothers me. I like a lot of things about Pentecostal worship and praise. I even enjoyed ‘holiness standards‘ and teachings on Jesus’ name baptism and such. I miss some things.

But in Pentecost I’ve missed the old, meaningful hymns like the ones sung this morning, people being able to accept each other in their humanity, the freedom to make choices on my own without rebuke, and preaching on things like grace, mercy, and love, too. I need those right now. Pentecostal style worship and praise I can do at home. I’ve got enough preaching CDs that if I really want an Apostolic message on baptism, I can listen to one any time. And standards are my choice. So I’m glad that, at least for a while, I can be bored! 🙂

Informational post on speaking in tongues #1

This is just a little ‘did you know’ informational post on the subject of speaking in tongues, shared as some food for thought.

With the emphasis and push for speaking in tongues in Pentecostal churches, my personal experience is that rarely was it pointed out, if ever, something which Paul told those who spoke in tongues to do. Do you know what it is?

I Corinthians 14:13 shows that Paul instructed those who speak in tongues to pray that they would also be able to interpret those tongues.

9 So it is with you. Unless you speak intelligible words with your tongue, how will anyone know what you are saying? You will just be speaking into the air.

10 Undoubtedly there are all sorts of languages in the world, yet none of them is without meaning.

11 If then I do not grasp the meaning of what someone is saying, I am a foreigner to the speaker, and the speaker is a foreigner to me.

12 So it is with you. Since you are eager for gifts of the Spirit, try to excel in those that build up the church.

13 For this reason the one who speaks in a tongue should pray that they may interpret what they say.

14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful.

Surprised? When was the last time you heard a Pentecostal preacher teach that if you speak in tongues you should pray to be able to interpret? It is interesting how little this is taught and emphasized. Paul wanted the entire group of believers to be edified when they gathered together.

Have you followed Paul’s admonition?

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Fake Ministers in the Church

Marjoe Gortner was a child Pentecostal preacher. He was taught by his parents how to act and manipulate a crowd. He wasn’t following God and yet people flocked to his meetings and gave him money. He faked speaking in tongues. People bought the whole show, including ministers.

When he was older, he actually exposed himself through a documentary he had made. In it, he shares about his childhood and explains why and how things happened.

Everyone is not as they may appear to be and everything that happens in a church gathering is not always of God. People can easily be manipulated given the right circumstances.

These are only some things to consider. We must use discernment. Do not blindly accept everyone who says they have a Christian ministry.

Below are clips from the documentary.

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Telling The Real From The False

There are different reactions when one leaves a Pentecostal type church. Some continue to practice what they learned in their church. Others run away from it. Many go somewhere in between.

Not everyone who leaves these type of churches will turn from all things Pentecostal. And some will simply develop a healthy and biblical view of them, which should be everyone’s goal.

When some people leave a Pentecostal church, they won’t even consider a non-Pentecostal one. They’ve had it drilled in them that all others are ‘dead’ or ‘boring’ and that is untrue. They may have become addicted to that emotional fix in a charged service. They may not yet have come to see how we simply cannot rely upon our emotions. (I have an article that addresses emotionalism called The Presence of God.)

Others leave and run as far in the other direction as they can. They find the so-called ‘dead’ and ‘boring’ services to be just what they need during their time of healing. They don’t want a minister to shout the message and don’t want all kinds of emotional displays in services. They don’t want anything that remotely reminds them of their former church. They want peace and quiet.

These are often steps taken by those who leave the UPC (United Pentecostal Church) and similar churches. Until one has had the chance to fully examine the various issues involved, it’s no wonder people react in either manner.

When I first left, I attended a church that broke from the UPC and was two hours away, if traffic allowed. After leaving there, I wouldn’t even consider the ‘dead’ and ‘boring’ churches. They were not in the ‘truth’, you know!

Many years later, I would now prefer a non-Pentecostal church. How I came to this place wasn’t due to my initial knee-jerk reaction. It has come after spending much time looking at the various issues, seeing what the Bible teaches and shows, and coming to what I believe is a biblical conclusion regarding some practices seen in Pentecostal churches today.

So we always need to allow people space in this and be patient as they make their own journey.

Some who leave are triggered by altar calls. In the New Testament church, I don’t see any examples of present day altar calls, but that doesn’t have to translate to meaning they can’t ever be used in a church service. They simply need to be healthy and whatever is done should be based upon the Bible.

Going to the altar in a healthy church isn’t about crying, pleading, begging, getting ‘zapped’, falling down or any such thing. I see it as basically one of three things:

It is an opportunity for a believer to have another pray with them.
It is an opportunity for a believer to pray privately to God.
It is an opportunity for a person to come before the church in a public confession of their newfound faith in God.

Here’s the thing about this- you never have to go to a church altar to pray. As believers, we can pray anywhere at anytime and with anyone. There isn’t some special power that goes with a church altar. God is just as close in your living room and isn’t any less powerful there.

In addition, in a healthy church, you won’t be told you must come up front to pray, nor will you be pushed to do so or made to feel guilty.

Going out of your way to avoid altar calls would be a knee-jerk reaction because of the triggers it causes. However, you may need to do this while you heal and work through your issues. That’s OK. I think you will find that over time you will become comfortable and not run from what would be an altar time in a healthy church.

And what about things like prophecy or tongues or healing?

Some people come to disbelieve anything related to their former church and this is often the result of having been in a toxic environment. These are all mentioned in the Bible, so they are real. The problem is we saw a distorted version of them and when we see these things mentioned, we may equate the distortion with them instead of realizing there is a true biblical aspect.

Here is something that should help should you find yourself in this position. Spend some time reading in the Gospels and Acts and see the supernatural events that are described. Pay attention to how and why things happened. Also notice the absence of examples for what we see in Pentecostalism today. (That’s one thing many of us never stopped to examine and that is if we could find any similar examples of behavior or actions in the Bible.)

In the Bible, people are miraculously healed. Lame people walked and blind people received their sight. A few were brought back from the dead. There were prophecies and even a little speaking in tongues. There were other miracles. See what I mean? These things can be genuine and shouldn’t be discounted because we received a distorted image of them. Get a healthy, biblical view and discard the distortion and see it for what it is.

Hopefully there’s something here that will help those struggling in this area.

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