Category: questioning | Page 4 | Spiritual Abuse Blogs

Shaky arguments

Someone asked something the other day, and since then I keep thinking about the incident that changed my view of the bible and of certain doctrines of my former church completely.

Before I left my former church, I had joined a discussion board that was supposed to be for people who believed like I did. Through the next months, I’d realized that the people who were kindest were NOT the ones I would ever fellowship in person because, though they exhibited the most fruit of the spirit (love joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, gentleness, and self control) they didn’t dress the way I thought they should, went to places I didn’t think any Christian should, and even did things and said things I didn’t think any Christian would. It blew my mind that they were the ones, these that I would have judged in person as least Christian, could actually be the most Christ-like.

About nine months after I left my former church, a question was raised on that board about baptism. These questions were typical on the board, but this time one woman was very adamant about her position, and she put others down if she felt they disagreed with her on any point. I didn’t get involved at first, but after awhile she said something that made no sense at all, even from our shared viewpoint. I said something about that. She assumed I was disagreeing with her stance on baptism, and for the next several pages of discussion argued with me about something I already believed! She was so convinced in her mind, just as I’d once been, that if a person didn’t agree with me on everything, they must not be a “real” Christian.

And so we went on to have a several page ‘discussion’ that ended with me radically changing my beliefs and my understanding of several passages. So in short, a Oneness Pentecostal argued so ridiculously for what she believed (and was determined I didn’t) that she actually converted me FROM that doctrine, rather than to it. And she did a really good job of it!

I’ve experienced the same multiple times since. The harder someone argues for their views without listening to any others or even stopping to see what the other person DOES believe, the more likely they are to drive me away from their viewpoint, no matter how much I believed in it. It’s crazy now, looking back on that thread, because what she was saying doesn’t even make logical sense. I see where she inserted a bunch of emojis, particularly when she thought she’d made her point… and unfortunately most often where those points had actually fallen shortest. She really thought she was doing something, posting as she was. I notice the many times she would get upset by a question, restate her point, and then go off on an emotional tangent about how her view was directly connected to how great God was and how she had the truth. And I know there have been times in my life when I did, too. Now I realize that all of my arguments for what I believed must have sounded absolutely stupid to anyone who didn’t believe them. Worse, I was certainly proud of them… and I think that pride probably made them even more off-putting.

I want to post part of the conversation, but it is quite lengthy and dizzying in it’s ‘rabbit trails’. What’s incredible to me though is not how convoluted the whole thing got. It’s that she, in all her pride and zeal, actually preached me away from what she thought I had to believe to be saved, even after I told her I believed it. A United Pentecostal actually taught me why the UPC teaching of Jesus name baptism as the only right baptism was wrong.

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Shaky Ground In The Pursuit Of Truth

In 1973 when the late Don C. Marler was yet a member of the United Pentecostal Church, he wrote the book Imprisoned in the Brotherhood. I had never heard of him or the book for many years after leaving the UPCI and finally read it in early 2006. At the time, the book was difficult to find. It’s a small hardback, consisting of 62 pages and was reissued in Kindle and paperback formats in 2016 after his death. (The formatting on the newer version is problematic and the footnotes are messed up.)

Don Marler was born in Louisiana and grew up in the UPCI and his brother O.C. Marler is one of their licensed ministers. Don was a district director of the Harris County (Texas) Mental Health and Mental Retardation Authority. Besides Imprisoned, Marler authored several historical books as well as ones on genealogy. At some point he stopped attending any church and was no longer a Christian.

Parts of his book were interesting and good, while other parts I disliked. He speaks about several difficulties in fundamental churches, such as views on education, depression, racism, and sexuality.

In the introduction of Imprisoned, he shares about the pursuit of truth and how it can feel like the person is on shaky ground when they start this journey. Many people who are involved in unhealthy churches get caught up in religion. When one starts to question if what their church teaches is true or not, it shakes this religious foundation. Let me quote from Don’s introduction.

When one moves full tilt into pursuit of truth, he may find that the ground becomes shaky and his resolve to pursue truth wherever she might lead becomes tenuous. One learns that security based upon ignorance, prejudice, illusions, misinformation and blind tradition is a false security indeed. Old guideposts can no longer be relied upon. The prospect of seeking truth and following it fully then is often frightening. Not everyone can face it; some decide to keep their heads in the sand. The illusion of security is more tempting than the fearful journey into the unknown. Some individuals believe that pursuing truth wherever she leads is dangerous because it destroys or weakens belief and faith. Beliefs should be open to change and one would hope that truth should prevail over mere beliefs. Faith, of course, is different from beliefs and should be strengthened by truth. Does it not require faith to seek truth?

A prerequisite for pursuing truth is the ability to be open and honest with self and the ability to recognize and accept that one doesn’t possess all truth. Another is the ability and courage to assume individual responsibility for one’s search and for the conclusion one reaches. The alternative to individual interpretation and definition of truth is an institutional definition and interpretation. Since life, religion and spirituality are individual matters, it follows the truth pertaining to them is primarily an individual matter. Therefore, the conclusions, ideas and thoughts expressed in this book are my responsibility.

I am a member of the United Pentecostal Church and am more familiar with it than with other churches. Many of the comments made herein are a result of participation in and observation of that church. After having lived and worked for most of my life in the South (the so-called Bible Belt) I have concluded that those of fundamentalist belief are more alike than they are different. The book, then, is directed to all fundamentalists specifically and to all Christians generally. The intent of this book is to be challenging, critical and questioning. Although this is a book of various issues and observations, its central theme is that we have imprisoned ourselves and each other in a religious system. The major purpose of this book is to help us see more clearly how this is done. Only after we see this imprisonment clearly can we decide whether we want to keep it this way or to change it. Only then can we decide whether we want to be free or not.

Here are some questions to ponder:

Why does the ground feel shaky when we start to question church teachings, whatever they may be?

Have you seen ones who have started to question and then pull back because it is too upsetting to them?

Is there a false security?

What about individual responsibility? Or is it easier to ‘go with the flow’ and remain entrenched in religion?

It’s easy to have it all laid out for you. You do this, this and this, avoid that and the other, and you’ll be pleasing to God. There’s a sense of security that can come by following and checking off such a list, but it is actually a false sense of security.

Think of the Pharisees. They had their lengthy detailed list of rules to follow and some of it was actually scriptural. But then somewhere along the way, the list became the focus and that list grew so one could better keep the things in the list. They felt very secure in it. And yet it wasn’t real security. Jesus showed their hearts were far from God and they were in danger of being lost. Yet all the while they felt quite saved. Children of Abraham. Keepers of the law.

I love how one person I know responded to the question about pulling back after starting to question:

I did it many times during the years I was in the UPC.

It’s like being in a boat and standing up and trying to put your foot on shore. The boat starts rocking wildly and you are not sure if its the boat or the ground that is moving. And you are afraid you are going to fall so then you just sit back down in the boat, and the boat stops wobbling and you feel safe. But there is something about the shore that draws you. The grass looks so soft and cool. You see flowers in the distance and trees. You have to try again, but when you stand up, the boat starts rocking again and everyone in the boat with you gets upset with you for rocking the boat. They tell you the ground is really quick sand and if you step on it you will sink into it and be lost forever. And what if other people follow you and they sink too? So you sit back down. But as much as you try to be content, and fit in and just go with the flow of things, you know it will never be the same. You were too close to stepping onto the shore. You were close enough to smell the flowers and hear the laughter of people in the distance.

So you try again. This time you are able to step onto shore, but you hold onto the side of the boat, just in case. Then you get nervous and get back into the boat. But now everyone moves to the other side and will not speak to you or look you in the eye. Now you feel sad because you know you can’t stay. While you were standing on the shore, you looked at the outside of the boat and saw the words written on it…’False Security’. It’s strange but from inside the boat, you couldn’t see those words. You were always told the boat was the only true, secure thing.

There is indeed a false sense of safety in never questioning or looking into what a church is teaching. The boat isn’t rocked, everything feels familiar and you know what to expect. But if that truth is actually error being taught, then that nice sense of security is false. It is an illusion.

That’s really something to think about.

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The Darkness of Spiritual Abuse Part 2

This is the continuation of thoughts about spiritual abuse based upon Becca Anderson’s and Jennifer Redcay’s book, Pushing Back the Darkness.

The third point the authors make is as follows:

Test those who say they speak for God. In 1 John 4:1, the Bible says, “Do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world.” You approach a salesperson with a degree of skepticism, expecting to hear things that might not be as good as they are described. It is even more vital to maintain healthy caution with regard to people who try to “sell” you ideas that sound biblical but may not be. If what is being said is true, it will stand up to scrutiny, and over time.

Anyone may make the claim to speak for God. We see it all around us today, from televangelists seeking your money to the small church where the pastor has complete control of the people. In Jennifer’s circumstance, it was a very small group that didn’t meet in a church and was operated by one man who claimed to speak for God. He was a liar and a fraud. We find the same in unhealthy churches, large and small. Some man or woman claims they speak for God and people follow. How can one determine if a person truly speaks for God? Obtaining a ministerial license or going to a seminary does not mean one has been called of God to operate a church or even preach.

So what are some ways that a person can know if the minister’s claim is true? First, what they teach will agree with the scriptures. If a pastor says God told him to sleep with you, for whatever reason, that is not God. In contrast, the scriptures certainly do not condone sexual relations with the spouse of another person.

If the minister tells you it is permissible to lie about something in order to defraud someone outside the group or to lure someone into the group, what can you find in the Bible that speaks about lying? If the pastor proclaims that you must tithe in order to be saved, what will the scriptures show if you study tithing? Any minister that teaches things contrary to the scriptures has not been speaking for God.

Don’t blindly accept what a minister teaches, even if in the past you have found something they taught lined up with scripture. Some ministers start out good and then stumble into false doctrine or an unhealthy group. You have a Bible, and if you don’t they are available online for free. We really have no excuse for not checking what is taught before accepting and believing it. If you choose not to, down the road you may find yourself caught up in a very unhealthy situation.

I want to share an article written around 1979 by former United Pentecostal Church minister Dan Lewis when he worked as a teacher at their endorsed Jackson College of Ministries. It appeared in the college’s newspaper, The Agape. It addressed questioning and it being okay to not always have answers. It created a firestorm for him at the time it was written. This is from his book The Journey Out of the United Pentecostal Church.

FAITH WITH A QUESTION MARK

To some people questions are disturbing! For them life is a logically consistent, systematic closed activity which can be defined in precise propositions. Questions are unnerving. Worse, questions without immediate answers are unthinkable and to be avoided at all costs. What cannot be rationally treated with finality is to be brushed off or ignored. Probing is regarded with suspicion. Options are nonexistent. Anything less than blind assent is labeled as dissent or even rebellion. Yet, is not such an approach to life, especially Christian life, somewhat naive and overly simplistic? Does not such an attitude portray insecurity rather than strength? Ultimately, does not this position describe uncertainty rather than faith? The man who is afraid of questions is usually a man who is fearful of his position!

It is my conviction that genuine faith must be a questioning faith! It must be an attitude toward God of seeking for truth and a contentedness in spite of unanswered questions. Faith cannot be founded only on empirical evidence, for what can be conclusively proven does not require faith. For this reason, God Himself must be approached on the level of faith. As the transcendent God, He must be pursued. He reveals himself, true, but He always remains far enough beyond our comprehension to beckon us onward in our quest for Him.

Some of the greatest luminaries in God’s assembly of saints were questioners. Job, David, Habakkuk, and others asked discerning and pointed questions, not only of their peers, but of God. Does God enjoy my suffering? If a man dies, will he again live? Is God righteous? How can YHWH use a people less righteous than Israel to judge his own people? In the case of Job, it was the trio with the ready answers who found error, while the sufferer with the unanswered questions found truth. One of the finest ways of discerning the depth of Jesus’ teaching is to observe the questions which he asked, answered, or in some cases left unanswered. Jesus never avoided sincere questions that were motivated by truth-seeking. Questions were not an embarrassment to Him.

In the New Testament, one confronts both “faith” and “the faith.” “Faith” is what is believed because of genuine encounter with God. “The faith” is what is received because of traditional and doctrinal correctness. Both are important! However, we live in a generation which feels comfortable in accepting “the faith” without necessarily having “faith.” A doctrinal heritage can be adopted and defended without a genuine encounter with Christ. “The faith” without “faith” is worth little. One of the prime reasons for such a bland form of Christianity is a reluctance or fear of asking questions. “The faith” can be blindly followed without questions. But real “faith” comes as God reveals Himself, and He reveals Himself to the searcher.

Occasionally, one’s approach to the Bible takes the following naive, omniscient form, as related by Bernard Ramm. “Dear Friends, I have read no man’s book. I have consulted no man-made commentaries. I have gone right to the Bible to see what it had to say for itself.” Yet, as Ramm further points out, although this may sound very spiritual, it is in reality a veiled egotism.

Faith presumes a transcendent God. He is not wholly transcendent, or we could never know him. On the other hand, he is not wholly within our grasp, else he would cease to be God for us. Faith is the first prerequisite for coming to God, yet it also leaves us with unanswered areas, for “faith is the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things not seen.” In this life, “We see but a poor reflection” (NIV, 2 Co. 13:12). “We have this treasure in a fragile vase of clay….” (Weymouth, 2 Co. 4:7). We are constantly aware of our finitude and of God’s all-sufficiency. We are called to trust Him in the unanswered questions of life and eternity. If our faith is healthy and properly focused, unanswered questions are not an embarrassment but an incentive to continue our pursuit of Christ! As we struggle with a sensitive conscience in making ethical decisions, as we look inwardly in godly self-examination, as we view the needs of the world in light of the gospel, we have faith with a question mark! In the words of Jim Bishop, “I had wanted proof, something for my eyes or ears or hands. He wanted me to believe without it. Faith was what He required of me. And He never rested till I found it.”

The Darkness of Spiritual Abuse Part 1
The Darkness of Spiritual Abuse Part 3

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The Darkness of Spiritual Abuse Part 1

I am going to use Becca Anderson’s and Jennifer Redcay’s book, Pushing Back the Darkness, to share some thoughts about spiritual abuse. Near the beginning of the book, it says,

The heart of the issue in Jennifer’s experience of being drawn into a cult was her lack of discernment about the things the leader was telling her. It sounded so great to hear that he thought she had a “special ministry.” Without the tools of biblical discernment, she was unable to separate truth from lies.

Many unhealthy groups either claim God has something special for you or that they are, or have, something special that others do not. It is an exciting feeling to be part of something that appears to be special and important, especially in the spiritual realm. Sometimes people get so pulled up into this aspect, and because they may see some things happening, they may fail to discern what is really going on.

After this, the authors share some helpful points on how to discern truth from error. Below is the first point:

Read the Bible for yourself. Jennifer was a casual Christian. She was not familiar with the Bible and was therefore vulnerable to the leader twisting the Scriptures to suit his own purposes. Biblical knowledge doesn’t come overnight or from casual reading. It takes work. Read it systematically and regularly. If you are confronted with something that sounds like it “might” be from the Bible, or someone makes claims and backs them up with Bible verses, talk to someone more knowledgeable about the Bible (a friend, pastor, etc.) if you do not feel you have the ability yet to properly check out what you’re being told.

Some who become involved in unhealthy groups either have little to no knowledge of the Bible or when they do attempt to check the veracity of what they are being taught, they only know how to study the way the group has shown them. They may not read passages in their proper context. They may not consider the whole, or all, of what the Bible teaches on the subject. By only using the ‘proof texts’ supplied by the group and not reading them in their proper context, it may appear that the group’s teaching is true, even though it is in error.

That is what happened to me when I became involved in the United Pentecostal Church. I had very little Bible knowledge and did not know how to properly study it. The manner in which they pulled out a passage here and there, piecing them together, appeared to make sense and I was hooked and pulled in. Had I read everything in context and considered what the rest of the Bible taught, I would not have come to the same conclusion.

Later when one leaves, sorting through the teachings is an important aspect of healing. Some people shove this to the side, feeling it is unimportant or they are afraid to tackle it. I encourage everyone to take the time to look objectively at what the Bible actually says. You can know if a teaching is based upon the Bible or not. It takes time and it can be difficult to look at doctrines that the group has tied to your salvation and relationship with God. But if you do not tackle these, you may find yourself periodically in fear of something not true. You may forever believe that distorted view of God that was instilled into you. These things may well affect you at least off and on throughout your life if you do not seek these things out for yourself. Don’t allow that to happen.

The second point the authors share is:

Don’t be afraid to question what is said. When the apostle Paul was preaching in various cities, he praised the people of Berea because they didn’t take what he said at face value. They spent diligent time comparing it with the Scriptures they had and learned for themselves he was telling the truth. Anyone who insists you take his or her interpretation and not question it should set off alarm bells. Ask. Dig. Go to those who know more if you need to.

A person who teaches something true is not afraid of questioning. They are assured of their belief and are not insecure or needing to dominate others by commanding them to accept what they teach based on their word alone.

The unhealthy group often has an unwritten rule against questioning their practices and beliefs. A person usually discovers this by making the mistake of voicing a question and seeing how this is twisted into making them look bad and not having enough faith. You are to believe and follow the teachings because the leader said so. They are “watching for your soul” and “must give account” of you to God, so they say.

People all too often place ministers and pastors on a pedestal of sorts and in an unhealthy church this becomes especially dangerous as that will be taken advantage of. The pastor is seen as all knowing, even speaking as the voice of God. Disobedience to pastor is seen as disobedience to God. This places your spiritual welfare and destiny at stake in your mind. It is easy then to take this mindset and create a no questioning rule that can lead the person down all types of treacherous paths.

I cannot recall how many times since 1997 (We just celebrated the 21st anniversary of the spiritualabuse.org website this week.) where I have had people share that they were afraid to question and/or were afraid to voice their questions to anyone at their church. They often learned to push them aside or rationalize them away. “Well, the pastor was put there by God and he knows best.” “If the pastor is wrong, God will correct him.” “There must be something wrong with me that I am having these questions about what is being taught.”

Questions are normal. There is nothing wrong with questions. Jesus himself allowed people to question him. He did not forbid them and he did not berate or turn on people for doing so.

If your church is healthy, they should be open to questions. Leadership should not be insecure and turn you away or view you negatively because you questioned something taught. If you encounter anything else, then take a huge step back as you are likely in an unhealthy group.

The Darkness of Spiritual Abuse Part 2
The Darkness of Spiritual Abuse Part 3

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Faith And Questioning: The Caterpillar

There is sometimes a lot of fear in leaving (or in having left) that we will leave God. We may not go to church as often, may not want to read our Bibles or pray or do other things that our former churches told were signs that we were Christians. However, no matter where we are or what questions we’re asking, we’re being honest for asking rather than pretending we don’t. It takes a lot of faith sometimes to doubt or question. And it takes a lot of guts, after what we’ve been taught, to be honest enough to admit we have questions.

Asking questions and suddenly not having definitive answers for all things God-related is scary. “I don’t know” wasn’t an acceptable answer to Bible or theology questions in many of our former churches. But in reality, “I don’t know” may be the honest answer to a lot of things. I don’t know much about God. I don’t know what certain passages mean in the Bible. I don’t know what might happen in the end times or even if there will be an end of time. I don’t know (or don’t care) if there is a hell or what it is like. I don’t know. I don’t know for sure that there is a God or that he is actively involved in the minutia of my life. I don’t know a whole lot of things. And that’s scary. It’s scary for me and it’s scary for others who know me, and it’s scary for others who are in the same boat.

Today I watched a caterpillar form it’s chrysalis. And… this is the unscientific version, but to do so, the caterpillar eats and eats. Then it goes and hangs upside down by it’s hind feet. And then it starts to convulse, to shake and it’s insides start to expand and contract oddly. That caterpillar separates from it’s outer skin and bunches up small inside. It’s skin then splits and everything — antennae, face, everything is separated off and shed away. What is left is an extremely soft, extremely vulnerable inner part hanging from a reed or a wall. Then the new outer part starts to harden and form a chrysalis.

This can’t be easy for the caterpillar. I’m sure it doesn’t feel good. To us it would feel lonely, possibly painful, and very scary. But for the caterpillar to survive and for it to be what it is meant to be, it has to go through this. And I think maybe sometimes we have to go through something similar spiritually — shed old ways, old thoughts, old ideas, and become very vulnerable and lonely for awhile.

The crazy thing is, the poor monarch has to do it all over again to come out of the chrysalis, just a couple weeks later. But the result is beautiful.

Maybe in being taught that we should hold onto the faith we had at one point in our lives we are inadvertently being taught not to grow and become what God himself intends. Maybe holding onto what we thought we had at one particular moment actually prevents us from growing as we should and becoming what God designed us to be.

I’ve heard so much preaching on childlike faith and would think back to my faith at this or that time growing up. I’d pray in those times that I’d get that innocent faith back. But I don’t think that’s what Jesus meant. The one constant about my childhood faith wasn’t that it was perfect or strong or mature. It was that no matter how big or small, it was never hampered by fears that it wasn’t as good as it had been at some there point in my life. And it was growing and changing. As a child, I lived more day to day, not worrying about whether I had enough faith but simply accepting whatever faith I had at the moment. Perhaps childlike faith isn’t childish or childhood faith, but faith that simply is faith, not a ‘faith’ that worries about all it isn’t, but just is what it is.

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