A response to a response on 55 Things Christian Women Hear

One pastor wrote in response to the Twitter feed #55thingsonlychristianwomenhear. He emphasized a handful of tweets that said women were valued, and then went into a complaint against tweets that Christian women had heard about being in leadership or wearing certain clothes. He apparently didn’t read the feed itself, which included things like:

“‘The ultimate healing would be if you two were married’– said by the mom of my rapist.”
*meeting my friend’s baby* “Don’t worry this will happen for you soon.”
“It’s not your job to read the bible to our children. Their spiritual education is my job said the man.”
“If you had to pick, you’d rather follow the call of God on your life than get MARRIED? I don’t understand!”
“I recently got my PhD, after congratulations everyone talks about me needing to get a husband.”
“The nerve of women to complain. And, PUBLICLY! A woman’s job is to keep the peace, at her own expense.”
“‘The definition of biblical womanhood is marriage & motherhood.’ So single/childless women are unbiblical?”
“When you heard many sermons on how women submit to husbands but 0 on how husbands lay down their life for wife.”
“I know we’ve been friends 20 yrs & the divorce wasn’t your fault but I can’t have a divorcee near my husband.”
“Ambition isn’t godly.”
“Did you come to seminary to find a husband?”
“You need to let a man provide for you.” Me: “I’m single, so if I did that I wouldn’t eat…”
“Said to male/female youth: ‘Every woman has an inherent desire for children. If she doesn’t, something’s wrong.'”
“The church: ‘The dental hygienist deserved to be fired” (boss lusted).’
“You must be mistaken! Your hubby is a GOOD Christian, You can’t be a battered wife!”
“Well, no, he shouldn’t have done that, but as his wife you have to submit.”

The above are just a sampling. They were not addressed in the response.

Now, as for what was, there was a lot on clothes and dressing modestly. It happens that I’ve known this man. It happens that he’s known me ever since I left an organization that taught women should only wear dresses or skirts that come at least 6″ below the knee, should always wear sleeves below the elbow, should not let their collarbones show. He is very familiar with this group… and disagrees with them. Yet what he says in this response about clothes sounds so like them. And then he says: “How a man views a woman who is dressed immodestly is different than the way a woman perceives it.”

Wait. Do all men view women who dress immodestly “differently?” What is immodest? Isn’t what is considered modest at least partly cultural? (Consider what some tribal people in Africa consider modest compared to what is modest in America, or what is considered modest on a beach compared to what is considered modest in an office.) And do men really think “differently” about women who breach whatever their definition of modesty is? In my experience, they do only or mainly if they are told they should or if it is often called to their attention.

He ends with this statement:
“Perhaps you need to learn to “count it all joy, my brothers [and sisters], when you meet trials of various kinds” (James 1:2). And you need to do that first before taking your grievances to Facebook or Twitter. Slandering the church is demonic. Watch out that you’re not like the wicked servant who beats his fellow servants in Matthew 24:45-51. God will cut you into pieces and throw you out with the hypocrites.”

Count it all joy. Unless he is saying that “trials” are dressing “modestly” and staying out of leadership in the church, he has read some of the other tweets. Count it all joy. When your parents tell you they wish you’d marry your rapist? When you are told that you should go to a Beth Moore study and do a craft while the men discuss theology? When you’re told a man’s just being a man when he stalks you at church, so deal with it? When you’re told that you should stop wanting to be married but should get married and, if you’re single, that your life is on hold because women’s highest calling is to marry and have kids? Hmm…

Our grievances have been taken to churches. For years. And they have been ignored, in large part, in too many churches. But now he warns us not to take these grievances to Facebook or Twitter. Don’t discuss them. Don’t bring them into the open. “Slandering the church is demonic.” Where is that in the Bible? Who is beating his fellow servants? There is NOTHING wrong with saying that something being ignored by the church shouldn’t be.

In that way, how is 55 Things so much different than Luther’s 95 Theses? Yes, he responded to different things. But he called out the church for teachings that were harmful to people and were unscriptural. Yes, the man who wrote the response would say that some of the responses were scriptural. But surely not all. Surely not the ones I listed. And as for “God [cutting] you into pieces”… that is not in Matthew 25. I have not seen that in the Bible at all, though I have heard similar fear tactics used to silence those who would stand for right. I’ll take my chances. I’ll stand.

As Kelly Ladd Bishop said in her blog post: “The hashtag took some criticism from Christians who claim that it reflects poorly on the church and will turn people away. But that’s no different than covering up abuse because it reflects poorly on the abuser. These quotes are the reality for so many women in the church. So if it is reflecting accurately and turning people away, then perhaps it’s time for the church to listen to what the women are saying and do better.”

Sunday Night Fright Night

The stage was set, the tones were hushed, – weeping and moaning could be heard – and the sweat was pouring amid the hot summer breeze blowing through the open windows.  We were reaching the climax of another “evangelistic” Sunday night service at my United Pentecostal Church.  The building was small and inadequate for the crowds, as was the air conditioning system.  Our pastor’s preaching style was starting slowly with a scripture, a title, and then launching into various Old Testament stories and ending with stories of car wrecks, God’s impending judgement on women who didn’t follow the rules, and those waiting too late to “pray back through.”

He was a very large, imposing man and he could be very dramatic in his sermons; visually displaying how the devil had his way with Job, as he scraped his sores.  He acted out the stories of Rizpah, shooing away the vultures from the seven slaughtered sons of Saul, staggering back as poor Naomi who would have to be called Mara (meaning bitter) because she went out full and came back empty; no husband, no children, and of course pitiful blind Samson, who didn’t even know when God’s spirit left him. (This thought would haunt me for the rest of my life.)

All of these sermons were meant to create a sense of urgency in the audience to come rushing to the altar benches in front of the pews at the end of the service to plead with God for mercy one more time.  This scene was repeated each Sunday night in my United Pentecostal Church.  The purpose this served in my life was to make me very fearful of God and not the kind of fear the Bible describes.  As a young girl, the first concepts taught to me about God were that of someone who would only love me if I was good enough.  If not, He would yank the Spirit right out of me or maybe like Samson it would drift out and I wouldn’t even know it.  The long term effect of living with this kind of fear in my life is that I have always taken on the guilt of everything.  Every circumstance that comes in to my life causes me to question “is it my fault?”  I even dream up circumstances to blame myself for.  And since our emotions can’t think, they tend to stick with you through life despite the facts that you know.

Fear and guilt are used as a means of gaining control over the members of these churches.  You see, these are not the meek and mild ministers you see in movies, they are in total control.  In fact, the churches in the area I am in are not even called by their name but by Brother So and So’s church; whoever the pastor is at the time.  You are not to question his authority.  These ministers make up strict behavioral rules for you to obey; how to dress and how to comb your hair.  If you are going to be allowed to participate you must be following the rules.

Those who don’t follow the rules are disapproved of and seen as the dreaded “worldly.”  We were told what we could listen to, where we could go, and what we could do.  Fear is used to keep people from leaving the church; you are told there is no alternative, if you leave here you will lose your salvation.  It was always stressed that your “church family” is really closer to you than your real family.  Why would you ever leave?

But, is this God’s approach to drawing people to Himself?  If God’s highest desire is for man’s love and obedience, is it won based on fear of punishment?  The answer is no.  God’s approach to win man’s love and obedience is love.

“…not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentance?”   Romans 2:4b NKJV

“For God so loved the world…John 3:16a NKJV

“But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.”   Ephesians 2:4-7 NKJV

For the love of Christ compels us…”   II Corinthians 5: 14a NKJV

PTCS -Post Traumatic Church Syndrome

It is not important what is in front of you, or behind you. It is what is inside of you that counts.

I read these “words of wisdom” on Facebook today and thought it was good advice except when you suffer from periods of PTSD, or as I call it PTCS (Post Traumatic Church Syndrome) it is still important to know what’s in front and what’s behind because it changed what’s inside me.

According to Wikipedia, PTSD is known as an anxiety disorder and can affect anyone who has seen or experienced a traumatic event. The common causes of PTSD include war, rape, terrorism, physical assault, and any threat of death or serious injury.

The Wikipedia definition for PTSD didn’t list trauma experienced from association with an unhealthy church. There are quite a few of us who suffer from several church related traumas, especially those who have left the United Pentecostal Church or other legalistic churches. I’ve heard, read and experienced many traumas from unhealthy churches and know the anxiety actually exists.

I found a book while surfing the internet one night titled, “Post Traumatic Church Syndrome Memoirs and Healing” written by Reba Riley and it caught my attention, why wouldn’t it?

Inside the pages she explained while Post Traumatic Church Syndrome is not actually a real sickness that is recognized by the mental health society, it still exists and the pain and grief are very real.

It is very hard to imagine that a church you go to for help can turn on you and drop you like a hot potato, but it’s true. We are all walking wounded and we’ve been hurt from the very church we sought out for help and salvation. These wounds create an emotional barrier for us to attend church, create barriers for us to connect with God, and create barriers for us to develop relationships with other followers of Jesus.

These barriers are not evidence of anything that was wrong with us, but are evidence of wrongs that have been done to us. There is nothing wrong with us as we were made to think, we just had inquisitive minds who questioned things… and that is frowned upon in many legalistic churches.

PTCS runs deep and it hurts because we feel like we’ve lost our identity. I believe Paul said it best in Romans 7:5-6, “For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law (legalism) were at work in our members to bear fruit to death. But now we have been delivered from the law (legalism), having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.” When we wanted to be “good,” when we wanted to do the right thing and when we deeply wanted to be a follower of Jesus, and the pastor and/or another member tries to tell us that we’re not very good at it, it messes with our mind and soul.

But when I had enough trauma, I walked away. As a matter of fact, I was so discouraged, depressed, and hurt, I literally ran away. I know it appeared to many that I ran away from God and I often heard comments and read posts on Facebook about how I had backslid and I was a former pastor’s wife and should be “set” right. But that wasn’t my case at all…I simply ran away from the United Pentecostal Church, and everything that was associated with the people who hurt me. As I started working through my PTCS, I realized how resentful and even hostile towards anything “churchy” I’d become, but deep in my heart I still wanted to know God and I wanted a close walk with Him. I wanted something deeper and more meaningful.

It’s taken me several years to come to grips with my PTCS but I was able to receive help through programs offered in my new church. Programs like Cleansing Streams and Celebrate Recovery which enable you to receive help and healing from hurts, habits and hangups.

No, it wasn’t easy to do and I’m not completely healed but my anxiety level is the lowest it’s been for many years. My anxiety medicine is only taken “as needed” and I haven’t needed it for several weeks. So I end with this, if it’s still important to know what’s in front and what’s behind because it changed what’s inside, then it may be time to find a church that offers programs that will help you heal. Those churches are the ones that care about you and want to help you. We shouldn’t have to carry the hurts from the past and let them hinder our growth for a future.

Jeremiah 29:11
“For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, says the LORD, thoughts of peace and not of evil, to give you a future and a hope.”

How Long Is Your Skirt? (Er, How Holy Are You?) Pt. 2

In response to my last blog, the SpiritualAbuse.org Facebook Page received a large number of comments. Thanks to everyone who viewed the blog and left a comment. Some were nice, some disagreed with my view, but were still respectful, and some were a bit nasty.

I don’t see the value of rude behavior in an attempt to prove tradition as biblical truth, but some go for it, anyway. Regardless of one’s position on the issue, one can disqualify his point by being a nasty person. Please remember that when commenting on Facebook.

Moving forward…

On the Facebook Page, one lady posted this picture as a response to my last blog post:

It is supposed to illustrate the transforming effect of a woman who reads the Bible. Do you notice how the picture only examines the outside dress of the woman? It doesn’t make one mention of the heart! I state this because outside appearance is how too many people define modesty and holiness. This picture, used in Apostolic circles, reinforces that false notion. (BTW: There is no scripture posted with the picture that states a woman should always wear skirts. )

Reading and applying the Bible can transform an individual’s life. But, if you end up in a church telling you how to dress, then you’ve walked into something that is taking advantage of the transforming power of Grace. This is something cults do. It’s common for cultic teaching to take an ounce of truth, and then spin it into a pound of errors.

This picture does exactly that; it deals in extremes. If the Holy Spirit actually leads a woman to wear a dress, that is fine, but that still does not make it a biblical truth for all other women. In that instance, it is a personal conviction – nothing more. The Spirit leading a person in this direction does not automatically make it a universal rule for all women to follow.

When a personal conviction is taught in such a way that everyone must submit to it, this becomes an instance in which a truth has been twisted into a lie.

If you are in a culture which teaches that modesty for women IS wearing skirts, it’s more probable that peer pressure is directing you to do likewise, not the Holy Spirit.

Like I mentioned on my last blog post, this teaching is from man. It’s a man-made tradition. There is no scripture that states a woman has to wear skirts to be modest.

In one response, a lady questioned if all United Pentecostal churches taught this doctrine. I replied that I was a licensed preacher in the UPCI for several years. I traveled, I evangelized, and I got to know a lot of pastors in that organization. I will agree with you when you say that “not all apostolic churches make their members wear skirts,” but, I still stand by the fact that the majority teaches and believes it as being “truth.”

Here’s why – when an individual wants to become a licensed preacher in the UPCI, he or she has to sign a document which basically says one has to teach and believe in that doctrine. If one does not sign the document, a license will not be received.

Personally, I have known some ministers who signed the document, yet didn’t push the ‘standards’ issue. I also know about the kind of pressure and abuse they have received from the majority within the organization. Then, there is also the fact that they signed, and agreed, that they WOULD teach that doctrine. If you don’t agree to teach it, you won’t receive the license.

This is one reason why I gave up my license. I couldn’t lie. I could not tell them that I would teach their doctrines, and then turn around and teach something else.

The organizational teaching is that women have to wear skirts. They say it’s the “truth,” and in reality, it isn’t.

The Bible does teach to dress modestly. I believe that goes for both men and women. I also believe that some have taken advantage of that teaching, and have defined it as something it’s not.

Because of this post, I’ve asked people to give me one scripture that says a woman has to wear a dress. Instead of getting a scripture, I received in response, a lot of hate, mockery, and side-stepping of the question. Why did I get that? Because the teaching is not biblical—and a lot of people are enslaved to the lie.

How Long Is Your Skirt? (Er, How Holy Are You?)

I can assume this picture was made to be comical…but with what many in the “holiness/apostolic” movement teach, it really isn’t.

It’s even declared as a heaven and hell issue.

That’s scary. That is VERY scary.

Not because it’s true…it isn’t. It’s scary because men, in His Name, declare it as truth.

Teachings like that are abusive towards women. It’s emotionally abusive. It’s also spiritually abusive. It tells women that they can only be fully accepted by both the church, and by God, if they dress a certain way.

I’ll even go a step further and say that such teaching is abusive to men, also. It teaches them an improper way to look at a woman. It teaches them an erroneous way to look at God. A man under this teaching will influentially see a woman as holy – if she wears the proper outfit.

Again, I’m thankful to be free from the influence and massive pressure that declares “Apostolic Identity” over striving to be a simple and modest Christian. (A follower of Christ.) With that, I am going to lay my question out as plain as I can.

Is Holiness determined by skirt length?

Is Holiness for a woman determined by wearing a skirt?

If so, where did Jesus teach this? Where is it in the Gospels? Or our Bible?

It’s not in there. Teachings like this are not biblical, it is denominational tradition. It’s man’s tradition because it’s a teaching that originated from man. Nothing more. If it’s taught as truth, or even a heaven and hell issue, then realize it is a lie.

I’m sure many under the holiness/apostolic traditions will attempt to avoid the simple phrasing I used, but realize that no matter how they word it, that is the basics of what they teach.

Doctrines like this, and the passion put into declaring it as a universal truth for women – it’s crazy. It’s legalistic. It’s definitely NOT biblical.

Not to mention, it’s wrong.

How Long Is Your Skirt? (Er, How Holy Are You?) Pt. 2

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