Denying Oneself

The concept of denying oneself to “take up the cross” and follow Jesus is a biblical principle. It is the application taught in harmful religious circles that can cause so much damage and misunderstanding.

In the group where I grew up, it could mean many things. Taking up your cross meant denying yourself of food for a day or even a week, several times a year. If you were properly spiritual, you’d fast one day per week to keep your flesh “under subjection” to God’s Spirit.

It meant to give up most of the pleasures of living in general. No music outside of Southern Gospel or Classical, no ball games, no skiing for women (unless they did it in a dress), no television or videos, no plays, no puppets, no playing ball (unless it was “just for fun” without keeping score), no alcohol of any kind, nothing sparkly or decorative on your clothing (lace was the exception). There was to be no jewelry of any kind worn, and no makeup at all, including clear lip gloss or nail polish.

Some taught against any hair decorations of any kind, others limited it to sparkly hair decor. There was to be no proms and no school band if it required playing at ball games. No theaters, no go carts for girls (skirts made it indecent), and no dating without a chaperone present. There was to be no kissing, no holding hands, or touching of any kind before marriage. No trimming of the hair, and in some circles no curling of the hair with hot rollers or curling irons. Skirts had to be very long and not have any kind of splits, and sleeves had to be below the elbows at all times.

Males had to have no hair on the forehead, touching the ears, or touching the collar of the shirt. No facial hair was allowed. In my church growing up, your hair style couldn’t be any bigger than a certain measurement.

In some churches, they taught on what kind of underwear was permissible. For example, no thong underwear for women. Men were taught not to wear sleeveless undershirts, but they must always wear an undershirt. Women were taught not to wear pajamas to bed because they were “men’s apparel”.

To some, open toed shoes were sinful, and it was wrong for a man to wear certain styles or colors of ties. Some games were “wrong” to play…for example, anything with a deck of cards was wrong in one environment including Uno, while the other environment found cards okay but any game that involved dice was a sin.

One church made men and women sit on separate sides of the church. Guess which side was child heavy?

In all of these, and many more examples of “denying oneself,” there are some interesting themes that played out repeatedly. They were in areas such as clothing, eating, and spending.

Those who had enough money to do so wore the most expensive clothing they could possibly find. If they had to deny themselves in other ways, they definitely did not avoid “costly array.” They would wear lizard skin shoes, and carry ostrich covered Bibles. They had exorbitantly priced suits and dresses with very extravagant design detail. Their hair might be long and uncut, but it was styled in the most outlandish way possible. Their heels (if permitted at all) were sky high, very expensive, and definitely ostentatious. Were they denying themselves by avoiding TV but dressing in this fashion?

Eating was another area. As much as you heard it preached about the body being “the temple of the Holy Ghost” in regards to not using alcohol or taking mental health medications, there sure was no shortage of eating. I saw more grossly obese people percentage wise, at United Pentecostal Church and apostolic conferences than anywhere. I watched very hard line conservative preachers eat multiple huge plates of food at every meal at these meetings. Some who could afford it bragged about eating at the highest end restaurants and how much the plates of food cost. In most pictures of fellowship, there were plates heaped with food in front of the church members.  As a result, the appearance was often grotesquely sloppy and completely unattractive to anyone they were trying to convert. “Come look like us?” There was hardly a waiting list for that.

In the final area I want to address in this article, many conservatives were lavish spenders. I described above the spending on clothing and food, but there were also flashy vehicles and fine homes. It was most common to see a church sacrificially give in order to send their pastor on an extremely expensive vacation, or to buy him a luxury vehicle. In one instance, a church member buys the pastor a new Lamborghini every year.

Deny yourself? It doesn’t sound like it. Take up your cross? Not with those name brand suits.

The inconsistency is a major factor of concern and it is sad that, like the biblical Pharisees, these people try to swat at every gnat while “swallowing” a camel. They missed the big picture while snipping threads in the tapestry.

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Harmed In The United Pentecostal Church Part 2

In two groups, I asked people to share how they were harmed during their time in the United Pentecostal Church. People were also able to respond who exited a different group. I received enough responses to make at least four blogs. These are used by permission and are anonymous. Some responses have been edited for spelling and punctuation. All the ones included in this part were from the UPCI or other Oneness Pentecostal group. Each person is separated between using and not using quotations. After reading this series of posts, perhaps many will better understand some of what can happen to people in abusive churches. See Part One.

What harmed me was being told I couldn’t seek help for mental illness and I couldn’t take medicine for mental illness because it could cause me to be possessed by a demon. And because I didn’t get help with the spiritual and emotional abuse for all of those years I ended up suffering from social anxiety self harm and depression. Thankfully I go to a church now that when I talked to my pastor about my problems she got me in to see a wonderful therapist and the taking of medicine for my mental health issues is okay with the Lutheran church I go to and I am slowly getting better and putting my life back together because I now go to a very loving and caring church that I thank God every day for.

Here are a few of the ways I was harmed:
Financially: My pastor told me not to leave his church in a very small, rural town. I could not find a decent-paying job… or even one with benefits. AND I paid tithes and offerings (15% as taught) on the $5-6/hr I made… and felt guilty for not giving more.

Psychologically: I was taught to distrust myself, to distrust my instincts and to think that anything bad that happened was my own fault. I learned shame and humiliation. I learned not to love my self or take care of myself because those things were said to be selfish and self-centered.

Spiritually: I learned to fear. To fear the future and to fear God in a negative way. I learned that God didn’t have my best interests in mind — that he wasn’t there to take care of me but to be served without question no matter the personal loss… and that he would not only expect, but demand that we face those losses as a way to test our faith and trust in him.

Physically: The stress I was under from the lies and the judgmentalism took a physical toll on me. It affected my health and my strength and endurance as well.

Socially: I was led to believe I should trust people in the UPC above all others and to distrust those who were not UPC. I lost friends and disconnected from family. I missed time I could have spent with Grandpa before he died, and missed good years with other members of my extended family and with real friends I had and could have had outside of the facade of the church I attended.

And… because of the rules of my church, because the pastor had to approve (and usually arrange) any relationships, I never married, never had kids, and never shared many other experiences that would have been positive and which most people would consider normal. I lost hopes and dreams and connections with others, ways to share with and interact with humanity.

I was raised UPC from the time I was eight years old until I left when I was 33.
I feel like I have major trust issues. Once you figure out everything you have been taught your whole life is a lie and you were duped and used as a door mat for nothing, it’s heart wrenching. You can’t look at people the same way for fear of being naive and taken advantage of once again.
I am cynical and critical of all churches and pastors. I never again want to open my heart up to a pastor or their family in case they are not who they claim to be.
I am leery of church comradery because people who say they are your church “family” will most likely leave you high and dry if you stop attending at any point down the road.
Just to name a few things… I’m sure I could think of more if I gave it more time!

I can completely relate to the music stuff! I was there from 9-1 every Sunday morning to sing and from 4-9 every Sunday PM. Plus any extra practices. Any thank you? Nope. Just people ragging on you if you didn’t show up because you were out of town or something! How much family time was lost while I was “giving my talent to God” every week for 12 years!?! Ugh. The illusion of my responsibility to music is a big reason why I stayed in so long.

Before attending the UPC, I loved going to church so much. I’d go to most any church regardless of denomination. I’d walk if it was nearby, I’d take a church bus. (These when young) I knew Jesus would be there, I knew He loved me unconditionally. The UPC took that simple trust and crushed it with their man-made rules and extensive fear mongering. Now, maybe I’m not good enough for Jesus to really love me, maybe I’ll lose my salvation. I have issues with trusting church leadership, I want to go to church, but don’t want my children’s simple belief in God and Jesus to be tarnished.

Second, and I’ve worked through this at this point, when we left I had no friends. I lost them, was shunned. I was so wrapped up in having the UPC as my identity, that leaving left me lost and confused as to who I was, as a person and my identity in Christ. I had to relearn how to interact with every day normal people, how to be “me” and interact in society.

Straight to the point….we felt like puppets on a string and the pastor’s wife was an evil bitch!!!! Sorry for the profanity but that’s the best words for describing her!

We were in the UPC for over 25 years and I believe it was the hypocrisy that we saw over those years that led to our leaving. I have a very hard time trusting those in the ministry because of seeing things preached against and knowing that they were doing those same things. They were always shaming people into giving more money to the church than they could afford, while those that begged for the money never seemed to go without. One day I actually started to study the UPC doctrine and opened my eyes to see it all starting to unravel. While there are some good people in the UPC the basic doctrine is flawed.

Lately, the word “robbed” comes to mind. Every time I hear the beautiful words of the gospel and how little of the Bible we were taught, and yet we were told there is no place else you can go from here, everywhere else is wrong and hell bound. I cut my daughters hair and was dismissed as someone unworthy to serve. I was treated from then on as if I wore the scarlet letter on my chest. In my mind, the group is too fault ridden to exist. It is not doctrinally sound and they only love each other.

Where do I start? I was born and raised in the UPC although my mother was not “in” church, she took us faithfully every Sunday because she did not want the shaming and guilt from my grandmother. My mom needed my grandmothers help with watching my brother and I when she was between marriages. I was pulled from both sides and in and out of church through my teen years. When I married, my husband and I got back in church and stayed for 25 years I think. He became a minister and pastor. I began to doubt the doctrine and would research and write papers on the subjects to give to my husband. I did not like raising my teen age kids in such a fragile glass house and we were shunned by the church people from parties and etc. In the end my husband ran off with a “worldly” woman and left me high and dry.
So my damages are:

1. Lack of trust in the ministry.
2. Takes me awhile to trust people or their statements of love.
3. PTSD -anxiety and panic attacks.
4. Had to learn that it was okay to love myself….still a work in progress.
5. I still study the Word for myself and do not take a man’s word.
6. I am learning that God loves me and gives me grace and mercy and is not mean and harsh and full of hate and damnation.
7. I will never step back into a UPC ever again.
8. I’m glad I found the church I attend now which we call a Body of Believers. They have accepted me and helped with my healing and forgiving process. They also leave the giving amounts up to me to decide.

Mental health issues such as anxiety and depression stemming from various teachings and indoctrination….Severe perfectionism from being taught God loves us only when we measure up. Ten years of abusive marriage because of false ideas of submission. Fear and panic attacks triggered by opinions of others since that was a key piece in the group.

My time was consumed with activity and nonstop obligations. I feel I overlooked my children’s childhood and have multiple regrets over it. Also I feel like I don’t know what to believe, who to trust, even if I could trust myself for such a long time.

I was in for about 9 years.

Part Three
Part Four
Part Five

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Harmed In The United Pentecostal Church

When one has been exposed to spiritual abuse, great harm can be done. While some escape with minimal or no injury, most do not leave unscathed. Those of us who have been exposed to it grow weary of people trying to minimize or poke fun at what we experienced. If a person has only been in a healthy church or group, they cannot relate. They will wonder why people remained or went along with some things. They simply do not understand the atmosphere in unhealthy churches, nor the harm they cause. Some others who are still part of an unhealthy church love to label everyone as bitter, rebellious, and/or unforgiving and some laugh and say we just didn’t get to sing in the choir or didn’t like the color the pastor painted the church.

In two groups, I asked people to share how they were harmed during their time in the United Pentecostal Church. People were also able to respond who exited a different group. I received enough responses to make at least three blogs. These are used by permission and are anonymous. Some responses have been edited for spelling and punctuation and emoticons have been removed. All the ones included in this part were from the UPCI or other Oneness Pentecostal group. Each person is separated between using and not using quotations. After reading this series of posts, perhaps many will better understand some of what can happen to people in abusive churches.

I feel like I lost time with my immediate family that could have been shared, as Jesus did – with compassion and mercy. My interactions with them (while in the organization) were more about my false appearance of moral superiority, judgement and condemnation. I’ve lost moments with them that I’ll never get back. I only have hope that our eternities will be spent together at this point.

I was taught a dysfunctional and deformed view of God, as a vengeful, rejecting, elitist, which justified me and everyone else to behave in like manner. I became that guy that cut off family, friends, and anyone who rejected our way. I taught and believed anyone who wasn’t Apostolic was a fake wanna-be Christian and wasn’t going to heaven.

Wearing Make Up? Going to hell. Wearing pants? Going to hell. Wearing shorts? Going to hell. Seeing a shrink? Going to hell. etc, etc, etc. Thus, I spent 15 years judging people instead of loving people. Sure, I’d wave, but I’d turn around and snicker – yea there’s a harlot…

I was taught to mock people who left or were different instead of following Scriptures example. Years ago a local businessman came to me and said, “I know you are a Christian, and I highly respect you, and I want to confide in you.”

This man confided his addiction to pornography to me, explained how he tried and tried to quit, the hurt it caused his family, his failings, etc. In the end, he asked me to mentor him, to be an accountability partner, to support and pray with. I told this man that if he had the real Jesus, not his fake Jesus, he wouldn’t have these problems and that he needed to come to church, get baptized in Jesus name, get the Holy Ghost and speak in tongues or he was lost to hell, and until he did those things I wouldn’t be able to be that connected and close to him.

This man was seeking Jesus, and I could have been part of that, and helped a MAN with a problem most men face. Instead? I judged, condemned and rejected like a good Pentecostal should.

It took me three months after leaving the cult to circle around to as many people as I could remember that I rejected and personally and face to face ask for forgiveness for the things I had done, said and exemplified.

I grew up with a very unrealistic view of the world around me. I was a good student in public school and a PK at home. I felt schizophrenic because the two worlds were always in competition. I attended the cult college instead of real college but thankfully met and married a wonderful man. He was clueless to all the hurt and abuse women suffer in the UPC. I was robbed of the fun and joy of being a young wife. I felt like an old lady at 30 and looked like one. So many things were not ‘allowed’. We were allowed to eat so I got fat. No makeup, jewelry, feminine things that make a young wife smile. I never fit in, my kids never fit in; not because we broke the rules but rather because we followed them too closely. I was miserably judgmental of myself and everyone around me. The peace that can be found when you leave this legalistic, self righteous group is unbelievably amazing!

…I did not even touch on the financial in my last post. From our pastor insisting we buy a van as a young married couple so we could haul people to church (and his assurance in 1973 that we would never have to make all the payments because the rapture was imminent). Then my making all our clothes, even suits and jeans because there was a cheap mill fabric store and a huge portion of our money went into the church. We shared drinks at Burger King while the pastor ate at Bennigans with our tithe. We had major life events including my husband being injured and spending almost two years in the hospital and a year of waiting for military pay to kick in while living on $40 a week from Red Cross and painting a house myself in lieu of rent. No church offered any help whatsoever. That year I had $19 for Christmas for three small children. Although we were assured we would have huge money issues and go broke if we left and did not pay tithe, we have flourished in the seven years since leaving, even though we still give to the poor and needy and those who struggle and to our own families (even those still in UPC who still struggle) but not to the fat cat preachers.

I lost my youth. I lost out on relationships with extended family before I left and now with my immediate family and most childhood friends since I left. I was uneducated, depressed and married at 20. I hated my life and didn’t even recognize it until I left.

Being a former 4th generation UPC kid and growing up under the church pews, I learned to hide who I was quickly. I learned my body should be hidden. I wore clothes several sizes too big for 27 years. If I wore something that fit me (even as a kid), it was too sexy and I would be causing some old penis to sin. I was taught I shouldn’t find interest in sports or things because the dress code for those things were “inappropriate,” I really hate that word! It was used for anything that didn’t fit the UPC mold: friendships, clothing, jewelry, heels off in church, sexuality, creativity that didn’t serve the church in some way… I was taught to not speak up, to hold my peace. I wasn’t to listen to my instincts because they were inherently evil. (I still struggle with this! It’s gotten me in some pretty awful situations over the years.) I felt I often needed to apologize to people I cared about in the church for my family’s treatment of them in the name of God. The church taught exclusivity from “the world.” I could have had some pretty amazing life-long school friends had it not been for the church! I missed out on joy, being more athletic, being a dancer, feeling beautiful, being playful, having relationships with my non-UPC family, getting help with my developmental disabilities outside a school setting, and not making plans for my future past 18. (It was a rule in our house we had to graduate high school, but I didn’t plan for marriage, college, career, kids, or anything. The rapture was going to happen! Hallelujah. Amen. Why try to dream about things that’ll never happen?!? It really made the first few years of my marriage super tough. I didn’t know how to live in the real world. I was so flipping naive! I didn’t know what I wanted to do for work, so I got fired a lot a lot! I didn’t know how to pay bills. I’d always lived with my parents. I could spend money like there was no tomorrow at the grocery store. My poor husband was/is still super patient with me when it my lack of street smarts/worldliness pops up.) There is sooo much more.

The constant call for money and giving more than you could afford caused much heart ache in our family. Even to giving our whole month paycheck to the church. Not even a thank you and it going into the big black hole that was existing at that time. My husband and BIL were asked to sign on a huge loan and they wouldn’t. That next Sunday was the straw that broke the camel’s back. The church was asked who would support the pastor in anything they did or say by raising their hands. We did not of course. That’s when we were snubbed leaving that day. We had had enough. 1/3 of the church split. We were with the split. That pastor left us to go evangelize and we felt betrayed. The new pastor sent in by the UPC also betrayed us by leaving in a month. That’s when both of us gave up on the UPC. My husband went back to it after awhile but I never did.

Part Two
Part Three
Part Four
Part Five

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The ‘Standards’ Lie – They are really Laws

I always felt like I was being a little dishonest in my days as a legalist when I spoke of the rules and regulations of the faith I belonged to, particularly in trying to explain them to new converts or questioning prospects. Our ladies weren’t allowed to cut their hair, color their hair, trim their hair, perm their hair, wear short sleeve shirts, tights/leggings, wear metal of any kind in their hair, or any form of jewelry/ornamentation, etc.

The same rules applied to me, as a man, with other requirements as well, such as abstaining from facial hair or allowing my hair to grow past a few inches long. And when people questioned these, saying things like, ‘Sounds like you guys are still under the Old Testament law,’ the response was always, “No, it isn’t laws, they are standards.”

To illustrate this, I want to start off with pics (pictures prove I haven’t altered the text in any way) from two exchanges I’ve had with people on YouTube content in the past week.

In both cases, we are discussing the Oneness (Apostolic) Pentecostal Holiness movement, of which I was part of for 15 years, and their dogmas (standards) on dress. I won’t take the time to reiterate all of those things, but read these blog posts to learn more: Men and Womens Apparel in Ancient Days, The Commandments of Men, & Out of Context: Without Holiness No Man Shall See The Lord.

In both cases, the individuals are defending their church dress standards, but claim things that aren’t true, and then do what I used to do, and that is to be dishonest about what the ‘standards’ really are. These are Oneness Pentecostals responding to my videos and other videos on the same topic – dress standards being law.

This one is one of the more interesting conversations because this individual does what most Apostolic Pentecostals do. He/She initially relates their dress standards to the commandment of being “Holy,” and then declares that the only other side to the coin (in layman terms) is that you’ll just go wear mini-skirts and paint your face, which makes you a harlot. (Yes, the Apostolic Pentecostal church teaches that you can’t wear makeup and make it to heaven.)

This highlights the disease of this belief set – because it gets rooted in their heart that if you don’t dress like them, you are a harlot.

Then of course, when asked how they make the connection between ‘Be ye holy, for I am holy,’ and ‘Without Holiness, no man shall see the Lord’ and their dress rules, he/she says what I used to say.

“It’s not a dogma its preference you make it a heaven or hell issue out of it.’

That baffles me because it is actually the Apostolic Pentecostals making a heaven/hell issue out of it. In a recent conversation with a young man, he said, “Look, they are standards, not laws, and the local pastor has the right to set standards for his church. (even on things not taught in the Bible, so long as they don’t contradict the Bible) I went and talked to the pastor and even he admitted, these things like facial hair, short sleeve vs long sleeve shirts are not heaven or hell issues.

That sounded good, but then the pastor said this, (this is not verbatim, but accurate) “But, if I set the standard here, and you don’t obey me, you are sinning the sin of disobedience.”

That my friend is a law.

This one became even more interesting and this is just a small portion of the whole conversation. What always intrigues me about these ‘defenders of the faith’ is how rude and arrogant they tend to get.

All at once, Carson declares that women in the 1st century would have worn dresses like we would think of a dress today, as completely different from a man’s clothing, that the Apostle Paul taught this very simple idea, attempts to use Greek words to prove that women wore dresses, intently implies anyone who doesn’t believe this lacks basic intelligence (in another post, Carson said, “If you struggle with this simple principle you must struggle with a lot of things in life lol,”) and then goes on to say, “I dont believe a woman is going to hell because of pants.”

This is just a sampling of the fervor you will find defending the dress standards of the Apostolic Pentecostal faith. So I did a little social sampling/research, asking questions like this one.

“The Bible says not to take away from, or add to the Word. Jesus made it clear in Mark 7:7 that men who created their own laws (let’s call them standards) for the people, things outside of God’s word, were hypocrites and that worshiping Jesus in those things was vain and useless. Nowhere in Scripture does it say the Pastor has the right and duty to make up his own church rules, required for membership, that are outside of Scripture, and we aren’t talking about carpet color and instrument selection.

So, if your pastor says that men wearing facial hair is unholy – would I be allowed to be a full-fledged member of the church if I continued to wear facial hair? Would I be allowed to be a member? Would God be able to use me? Could I participate, in Choir, outreach, etc.?”

The answer, of course, is no. Unless you abide by that pastor’s standards, you have no legal standing in the Faith. So then I ask this question, “If there is no other Apostolic church in this town, and I can’t be a member of yours, how can I be saved since the majority of Apostolic Pentecostals think they are the only saved people on the earth?”

What is the difference between a Standard and a Law?

A law is something that is written into statutes that all people must obey. Disobedience to these laws results in penalization. In this simple example, the white background speed limit sign is a posted law. If you exceed this limit, you can be subject to penalties including traffic violations and fines. Normally (In the U.S.) you’ll have to appear before a judge and defend or plead your case. You are sentenced from your infraction and you pay the fine or duty that the judge imposes on you. That is how law works.

The yellow background speed sign is a standard. It is an advisory speed sign. You’ll normally see this when coming into a space of road that has a lot of curves or is windy. They will post a sign that is the suggested speed for which it is safest to drive that stretch of road. Exceeding this limit may place you in danger of not handling the road well, but it is not a traffic law violation to exceed this speed. If you are doing 35mph in a 25mph advisory zone, you have broken no laws and will not be judged for your behavior.

This highlights the simplistic distinction between Law and Standard.

You see, while we/they can claim that the standards of the Apostolic Holiness movement are not laws, they (and I was this way) are being very dishonest. I know people who defend these standards in this fashion who are not intentionally being dishonest, in fact, most aren’t, they are just regurgitating what they are being fed from the pulpit.

People will say, ‘Our dress standards are not laws,’ and yet, they will in the pulpit (and I’ve heard it hundreds of times) say, “No woman wearing pants and lipstick is going to make it to heaven.” In the first conversation image I posted, these people always backlash when you question their standards, by saying things like, “Fine, go find your self a church where you can be a harlot (wear makeup).”

If something you do keeps you out of heaven, it is because you have violated God’s law. So if the claim is, ‘You can’t go to heaven if you aren’t obeying the standards,’ then you know assuredly, that those are laws, not standards.

Now, a church and pastor may make a standard, something like, “Our church has held the standard that we do not want any married men or women in a room alone with another married person. When I (The pastor) counsel, I will not do it alone with a woman, my standard is to always have my wife with me when I counsel someone of the opposite sex. We ask all of our church members to be careful in this way.”

This is a standard. This is something based in principle, that you are not judged for, that you are not legislated by, and your membership to the church does not depend on. Would following the example set before you be extremely wise? Absolutely! but it is not a law.

God alone, if you believe in God and in His Word, is the only one capable of creating laws. Those laws were written. The faith was once (and for all) delivered unto the saints. What is going to keep you out of the Kingdom of God was clearly written in Scripture. To add to that is such a dangerous thing.

Conclusion

Let me end by saying this: If you, for yourself, believe that wearing a certain piece of clothing, or worshiping at a certain time helps keep you closer to God, than by all means, do it.

The faith which you have [that gives you freedom of choice], have as your own conviction before God [just keep it between yourself and God, seeking His will]. Happy is he who has no reason to condemn himself for what he approves.” – Romans 14:22, AMP

I am not judging you, or anyone for the personal standards and convictions they want to keep. Paul made it clear that you are blessed (happy) for those things you allow. Your own personal convictions.

What I am coming against, is entire organizations making ‘standards’ that keep people in or out of the church, and to their set of beliefs, also keep people in or out of heaven. If it wasn’t written in Scripture, and it’s taught as something you must do, it is a man-made law and should be called for what it is, an error and fallacy.

They worship Me in vain [their worship is meaningless and worthless, a pretense],
Teaching the precepts of men as doctrines [giving their traditions equal weight with the Scriptures].’ – Mark 7:7

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Enabling Environments in UPC Youth Groups

Part eleven of a series of articles.

This addresses the co-mingling of those underage with ones in their twenties and thirties in some churches. Years back, the Youth Division of the UPCI was called Pentecostal Conquerors. (2024: The original linked to video was later made private and I have replaced it with a different one.) The national leader could be as old as 39, while district officers could be 35. Their churches allowed those from 12 to 35 to take part together in various activities.

I feel that encouraging those in their twenties and thirties to hang with pre-teens and young teenagers has opened the door for grooming and sexual assaults of minors to occur. Debbie has shared that the church in Madison didn’t seem to think there was anything inappropriate or potentially troublesome with people much older hanging around with those quite younger. Debbie was groomed and repeatedly assaulted from age eleven to twelve by a man who was old enough to be her father. The church didn’t blink, even when he took her on day long work trips.

The following article is what one person has observed in this environment and was written by a woman who wishes to remain anonymous.

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I came into the UPC at 26 years of age. I had been out of church for about ten years, living a very worldly life, even by most liberal church’s standards. I look back now and count this life experience as a blessing, as I could see warning flags where many of the young people in the United Pentecostal Church could not. I had grown up in pretty average churches, and I had adored youth group in high school. I was used to youth group being for kids grades 8-12, with possibly a handful of older “young people” volunteering as leaders. Usually these leaders were part of the C&C (College and Career), they weren’t any older than early 20s, and they were Godly examples, leading solid, mature spiritual lives.

I was delighted when I was “invited” to attend my new church’s Hyphen group! I do recall wondering why it took them several months to ask me to attend, and why it wasn’t just published on their website or ever announced. I would have thought they would want everyone even visiting to know about it. I remember also being flattered they thought I was so young, and then surprised when they said it was for ages 18-35. I had thought that was quite a spread of ages. I look back now and I guess they didn’t want to advertise it at that age spread as it might have not looked so good on paper, and it would have held them more responsible for some of the things that did go on in regards to Hyphen and youth.

The first evening I showed up for the group, we had planned to play basketball and then have a short Bible study. I was still quite new, so I couldn’t figure out why the only other two girls to show up both wore skirts to play basketball. The group was mainly guys, mostly in their mid 20s. The other two girls didn’t really play ball, largely because of their apparel. In the subsequent weeks, the other two girls didn’t attend often. They both had rotating shift work and they also said it wasn’t fun if all the girls weren’t able to attend. I soon learned the holiness standards and started to see a real issue with attending these athletic evenings, as if I dressed how they preached, I would struggle to play things like basketball or soccer while remaining modest and keeping my skirt from getting pulled, twisted or flipped up. If I didn’t play, chances are I would be sitting on the sidelines alone as the other two girls weren’t often there. If I dressed to play sports, then I would look backslidden. I settled into a routine with the church where I spent my time with the older women and skipped Hyphen. Hyphen became an all boys club for a time.

The church had a small youth group but it was growing. The youth pastor was one of the guys in the Hyphen group. He usually used a couple of the other guys from the group as leaders. Because Hyphen was a small group, he regularly would combine the Hyphen/Youth activity so he only had to lead one group that week. Hyphen was still all male at that point in time, while youth was primarily female, with girls ranging from 12-17. One of those girls ended up marrying the youth pastor, as soon as she graduated from high school at 18. He was about ten years her senior and had known her since she was ten or eleven. I was around his age at the time and remember finding it kind of gross to think he watched her grow up and married her as soon as it could sort of be considered socially acceptable. I wondered if he just suddenly found an interest in her, or if he had been perving on her when she was 14 or 16, while he was her youth pastor. Another girl, same age, and the same year, also married that summer out of high school to a man from another church who was also in his mid to late 20s. I thought they must be anomalies at the time. Later I realized this was the norm.

Around that point in time, there was a number of new people to the church and the pastor couldn’t keep up on all the Bible studies and discipleship classes he had on the go. He sent one of his more difficult students to the youth pastor to mentor. I knew this 53 year old man from outside of the church. He had been a member of our local chapter of Alcoholics Anonymous for some time. He had been able to maintain sobriety from both drugs and alcohol, but he had a lot of mental health, and emotional issues.

He would argue with everything the pastor said, and he had a real hang up on what the Bible said about sex. He would argue with our pastor about God not actually expecting abstinence, he refusal to live chaste, and he had strong opinions on a myriad of other male topics in regards to sex. He had been my house mate at one point when I wasn’t attending the UPC church, and I had the misfortune of finding his adult magazines lying around the house, as well as literally walking in on him in the living room with his pants down. I knew he had a real problem in this area. In fact, all the women in AA knew he had a problem in this area. He was very friendly and overbearing with all ages of women in AA and he would harass and show up in the same places as the women he was interested in at the time. I was glad to hear he was so open with the pastor about his feelings in this area, as he really needed a Godly man to hash these things out with, and not the poor women in AA.

After the pastor passed along this man to the youth pastor to mentor, this man was nearly inseparable from the youth pastor. They hung out several nights a week. They hung out at church. Where one was, the other one was. I remember thinking it was odd that a 28 year old life time Christian man, and a virgin, would have much in common with this 53 year old man who wasn’t overly committed to a Christian walk and who had such an obsession with sex. I was uncomfortable when this man started attending Hyphen. It was one more reason I didn’t want to attend. I was horrified when I found how he was attending Hyphen/Youth. Why would a 53 year old man want to hang around with teens and twenty somethings? Why would he want to be around underage girls?!?! Why was anyone letting him be around under age girls!?!?

This guy had a reputation for being very pushy and not respecting boundaries with women his own age. He also had a bad temper. He got into a fight with one of my close friends because she turned him down. He told her all the reasons he was better than the men she had been dating and why she HAD to date him. He bullied her and yelled at her and wouldn’t leave her alone. She was a very strong woman, but I knew many women would have caved and gone out with him just to settle him down. And they were allowing him around very young, vulnerable women? What if he decided he was the best dating choice for one of the 18, 19, or even 22 year old women? I knew the pastor wouldn’t listen to me if I said anything though, so I fretted in silence.

A new, young girl, started attending the youth group. She was 15. She came from a pretty broken home. She had actually been invited to the youth group in the most ingenious of ways. She had developed a pretty serious crush on one of her classmates, who happened to be a young boy from our church. She was following him around school and giving him gifts and notes. He went to his mother, looking for advice as he wasn’t interested in this worldly girl with a reputation for partying.

The mom decided she found a witnessing opportunity. She started inviting the girl to their home for family dinner and then brought her to the youth group when she brought her three sons. The girl continued to crush on the boy, but she did it while hanging out with a group of Christian girls, learning about God. Eventually the girl became more independent of the boy’s mother and she started getting rides with other members of youth or Hyphen, and she also hung out with the group at non official gatherings at people’s homes or McDonalds.

I was so concerned to hear that the 53 year old man had become her regular ride. He didn’t work, and had no problem driving her from anywhere to anywhere as he appreciated the company and wasn’t doing anything anyways. She was starved for attention in life and she would go to anyone looking for attention, love, etc. She was so vulnerable as she told him about her drug experiments at parties. They could bond over their shared substance abuse stories. She confessed her confusion over an attraction to women to him and wanted to discuss what the Bible had to say. They could bond over their dislike for God’s plan for husband and wife. She discussed modesty as per how the UPC preached it. They could bond over their shared desire for women to wear what they wanted and the innocence in a little cleavage and leg. She had no curfew; he had no reason to be up early in the morning. They would end up in an after hours dinner having deep discussions late in to the night. The youth pastor knew, but if anything, I think he was just glad someone other than him was amusing this man on those nights.

Something I’ve learned in my own life. There are many male predators that don’t set out to be a predator. They just don’t have boundaries. A healthy, normal man of 53 years of age wouldn’t want to hang out with a bunch of young people because he doesn’t have anything in common with them. If he was a leader to them, he would maintain a certain distance as he is twice their age. A normal, healthy man of 53 years of age would not allow himself to get pulled into deep conversations with a 15 year old girl, because he would know its not appropriate and its not healthy for her. A man with boundaries, certainly wouldn’t start confiding in this 15 year old girl, while discussing the Bible and what it says about sex.

This man was one of those predators that didn’t set out to be a predator. I don’t know if anything ever happened with them, I would like to believe it didn’t. But they had both put themselves in a very precarious place. She was latching on to a daddy figure, but she was just a mixed up kid. He was allowing himself to get very emotionally involved with a minor. If she had made a pass at him, I truly believe he would have gone with it. The legal age of consent in our area is 14, and he would have deluded himself into believing it was ok since she was older than 14.

I look back at that group of kids now. The kids that came from church families have stayed in the church. The kids that were new have not stayed in the church. Facebook told me recently that a girl who had just entered youth when I was attending Hyphen, married one of those men from Hyphen as soon as she graduated at age 18. He was 30. He had known her since she was a preteen. She is now pregnant and will be giving birth at 19.
The church looks at the girls that left as backslidden and headed for hell.

Some of the girls are just wearing pants and make-up. One is living with her boyfriend. Another is in a lesbian relationship. Instagram has gotten at least one of those girls in trouble with her mom after photos of underage drinking came out. None of these girls have made terrible, life ending decisions. They are just going through some of the stages or rebellions of growing up. I look at the girl who is pregnant at 18. She is the only one of the group with a teenage pregnancy, even if she is married. She is still just a kid herself. These other girls living outside of the church haven’t made any decisions that will alter their lives in big ways. This girl soon will be responsible for another little life, while shackled to someone who has 12 years of adulting experience over her. I find it so sad.

These girls aren’t protected from being exploited and they aren’t allowed to be kids with other kids. They are put together with men twice their age, and are expected to be mature and pure, and would be held responsible if anything were to occur. In a church culture where the older men marry the young women after watching them grow up, no one is concerned in protecting these girls.

You will find a complete list of articles in this series by clicking here.

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