Category: United Pentecostal Church | Page 47

Getting Out the Old Books: David F. Gray

I recently wrote this for the Facebook group Breaking Out. I had written on skirts a couple times before this was written, which is why there are references to circular logic and other writings.

I’ve recently gotten out all my old WAP books out of an old trunk. Even though, back in the day we were dirt poor, I always allowed myself one splurge and that was Word Aflame Press books (those were always sold at camp, etc.) and so I have a whole trunk full of them. I’ve dusted them off and so I intend to write whatever comes to mind. Pardon the focus on skirts for the time being, but, once again, I am concentrating on circular logic. In these comments you will see not only circular logic but subtle spiritual abuse while the circular logic is being used. I am using these books because they are in print and, as often is needed when refuting these subjects, proven to have been said. I find even when quoting books that people claim things were taken out of context or what have you and yet over and over, author after author, the same patterns are seen. So, again skirts, but this time, a different author.

David F. Gray was an old time Pentecostal preacher. I heard him preach a couple of times at Oklahoma camp meeting, probably in the 1980’s. He wrote a few books. From the book Questions Pentecostals Ask Volume 2 pages 120-125, he is refuting a book that had been circulating that spoke against standards. I will quote pieces and parts of this and weed out the parts that are circular and abusive. Keep in mind that these things sound softer and seem not as bad couched in certain terminology which is why spiritual abuse and circular logic is subtle. However, the words are there and often, shocking when weeded out:

David Gray: “I have read the book in it’s entirety.” (Some are) “looking for an excuse to compromise these issues…and the downright untrue statements…concerning women wearing men’s clothing….the book is false and spurious….the author tries to destroy the credibility of Deut 22:5.”

David Gray makes the accusations that if you disagree with his opinions on what is women’s apparel that you are a compromiser. He doesn’t say this to YOU, as the reader, but lets you know his opinion about people who disagree with him by talking about those who compromise as if you are his audience and he is speaking to you about those “other” people….so you don’t have to feel bad about what he says personally, but he steers you away from any other opinion. He also accuses the author of the book at the same time (and we have not read the book so we don’t know) of trying to destroy the very credibility of a biblical verse.

He goes on refuting a lot of other arguments from the book. Then he says “The statement that slacks are women’s clothes is simply not true.” He then goes on to talk about an advertisement that also suggested women should wear men’s shirts and ties along with pants. He then says “The world is more honest than some Christians who want to compromise. They know, even though some carnal Christians argue otherwise, that women’s slacks were actually taken over from men’s pants.” He makes a declaration that slacks are not women’s apparel. He declares this to you, having no authority over you. He says that Christians who disagree with him are just people who want to compromise. He calls them carnal. He makes a statement that we all know is true, which is that women in America used to wear dresses and implies that carnal Christians deny this, when I don’t know of anyone who ever has.

This argument, which is not an argument that is even being used, is used to throw you off the trail of the real argument (called a “straw man argument”). It’s important to be able to see past the bunny trail arguments and see the crux of the matter….that there are accusations and browbeating happening here to bolster a weak argument. This is an example of legalism. A true conservative believer in wearing skirts does not need to bolster their argument because they have nothing to prove. They just believe what they believe for themselves and are happy to live the way they live. When I see accusations and browbeating, I am certain I am dealing with legalism and not true conservatism.

He goes on to talk about the abominable being thrown into the lake of fire. Then he says “Evidently God considers wearing the clothing of the opposite sex to be terribly significant, because he calls it an abomination unto Himself.” Understand what he is saying here. If you disagree with his opinions and are unable to sift through the straw man argument and defend yourself against the accusations, you will fear being cast into hell if you are not like-minded. This is how so many are “convicted” to wear skirts. Again, there is nothing wrong with wearing skirts in honor of this verse. The wrong is putting people into a mind-prison of fear of being cast into hell for disagreeing with the thought process. Different people think different things and have different opinions and that’s okay!

He goes on to say that people who say they’re going to heaven and yet “wear the clothing of the opposite sex” (read the implication) “there shall in no wise enter into” (the kingdom of heaven). He won’t come right out and say it. He makes you think the Bible is saying it but it’s not! The Bible is not saying it, he is twisting the Bible to agree with his opinion. But he is saying if you don’t agree with his opinion that women’s clothing is skirts and men’s clothing is pants and if you don’t apply that to your life, you are going to hell. He declares this. The Bible does not.

He ends with some good words “Any book that leads people astray should be rejected, lest some gullible, unstable soul be influenced by it.” Good words, indeed.

David F. Gray has since passed away and is no longer with us.

I am including photos of the excerpts if you want to take the time to read all of it for yourself: Page 119, page 120, page 121, page 122, page 123, page 124, page 125.

Getting Out the Old Books: The Literal Word by M.D. Treece
Getting Out the Old Books: Guardians of His Glory by Gary & Linda Reed
Getting Out the Old Books: David F. Gray
Getting Out the Old Books: Joy Haney
Getting Out The Old Books: Larry L. Booker
Getting Out the Old Books: Power Before the Throne
Getting Out the Newer Books: Wholly Holy: The Vital Role of Visible Devotion
Search For Truth On Holiness

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A response to a response on 55 Things Christian Women Hear

One pastor wrote in response to the Twitter feed #55thingsonlychristianwomenhear. He emphasized a handful of tweets that said women were valued, and then went into a complaint against tweets that Christian women had heard about being in leadership or wearing certain clothes. He apparently didn’t read the feed itself, which included things like:

“‘The ultimate healing would be if you two were married’– said by the mom of my rapist.”
*meeting my friend’s baby* “Don’t worry this will happen for you soon.”
“It’s not your job to read the bible to our children. Their spiritual education is my job said the man.”
“If you had to pick, you’d rather follow the call of God on your life than get MARRIED? I don’t understand!”
“I recently got my PhD, after congratulations everyone talks about me needing to get a husband.”
“The nerve of women to complain. And, PUBLICLY! A woman’s job is to keep the peace, at her own expense.”
“‘The definition of biblical womanhood is marriage & motherhood.’ So single/childless women are unbiblical?”
“When you heard many sermons on how women submit to husbands but 0 on how husbands lay down their life for wife.”
“I know we’ve been friends 20 yrs & the divorce wasn’t your fault but I can’t have a divorcee near my husband.”
“Ambition isn’t godly.”
“Did you come to seminary to find a husband?”
“You need to let a man provide for you.” Me: “I’m single, so if I did that I wouldn’t eat…”
“Said to male/female youth: ‘Every woman has an inherent desire for children. If she doesn’t, something’s wrong.'”
“The church: ‘The dental hygienist deserved to be fired” (boss lusted).’
“You must be mistaken! Your hubby is a GOOD Christian, You can’t be a battered wife!”
“Well, no, he shouldn’t have done that, but as his wife you have to submit.”

The above are just a sampling. They were not addressed in the response.

Now, as for what was, there was a lot on clothes and dressing modestly. It happens that I’ve known this man. It happens that he’s known me ever since I left an organization that taught women should only wear dresses or skirts that come at least 6″ below the knee, should always wear sleeves below the elbow, should not let their collarbones show. He is very familiar with this group… and disagrees with them. Yet what he says in this response about clothes sounds so like them. And then he says: “How a man views a woman who is dressed immodestly is different than the way a woman perceives it.”

Wait. Do all men view women who dress immodestly “differently?” What is immodest? Isn’t what is considered modest at least partly cultural? (Consider what some tribal people in Africa consider modest compared to what is modest in America, or what is considered modest on a beach compared to what is considered modest in an office.) And do men really think “differently” about women who breach whatever their definition of modesty is? In my experience, they do only or mainly if they are told they should or if it is often called to their attention.

He ends with this statement:
“Perhaps you need to learn to “count it all joy, my brothers [and sisters], when you meet trials of various kinds” (James 1:2). And you need to do that first before taking your grievances to Facebook or Twitter. Slandering the church is demonic. Watch out that you’re not like the wicked servant who beats his fellow servants in Matthew 24:45-51. God will cut you into pieces and throw you out with the hypocrites.”

Count it all joy. Unless he is saying that “trials” are dressing “modestly” and staying out of leadership in the church, he has read some of the other tweets. Count it all joy. When your parents tell you they wish you’d marry your rapist? When you are told that you should go to a Beth Moore study and do a craft while the men discuss theology? When you’re told a man’s just being a man when he stalks you at church, so deal with it? When you’re told that you should stop wanting to be married but should get married and, if you’re single, that your life is on hold because women’s highest calling is to marry and have kids? Hmm…

Our grievances have been taken to churches. For years. And they have been ignored, in large part, in too many churches. But now he warns us not to take these grievances to Facebook or Twitter. Don’t discuss them. Don’t bring them into the open. “Slandering the church is demonic.” Where is that in the Bible? Who is beating his fellow servants? There is NOTHING wrong with saying that something being ignored by the church shouldn’t be.

In that way, how is 55 Things so much different than Luther’s 95 Theses? Yes, he responded to different things. But he called out the church for teachings that were harmful to people and were unscriptural. Yes, the man who wrote the response would say that some of the responses were scriptural. But surely not all. Surely not the ones I listed. And as for “God [cutting] you into pieces”… that is not in Matthew 25. I have not seen that in the Bible at all, though I have heard similar fear tactics used to silence those who would stand for right. I’ll take my chances. I’ll stand.

As Kelly Ladd Bishop said in her blog post: “The hashtag took some criticism from Christians who claim that it reflects poorly on the church and will turn people away. But that’s no different than covering up abuse because it reflects poorly on the abuser. These quotes are the reality for so many women in the church. So if it is reflecting accurately and turning people away, then perhaps it’s time for the church to listen to what the women are saying and do better.”

Lessons From My Garden

I come from a long line of gardeners and I probably should throw in farmers too because that was a basic part of my family’s heritage. My great, great, great grandfather migrated from Wales to the States and joined the Continental Army at age 16 to fight for our Independence. After the war he crossed over the Smokey Mountains and ended up owning land in Tennessee and he started farming and raising livestock and his wife planted a garden. She called it a kitchen garden and she grew everything in it that could be served for meals and “put up” for the winter.

My great, great, great grandmother also grew flowers, planted fruit trees and basically landscaped the area around the house. Now this land in Tennessee is still in my family and cannot be sold, although my cousin is caretaker of the property no one farms it anymore but a few of the flowers still come up each year among the rock of the old landscaping. When I decided to plant a garden I journeyed down to the homestead and with the help of my great aunt dug up flowers from her gardens and also shoveled into trash bags some good rich dirt from the barns….not a pleasant smell driving home…but it would help my garden grow.

Once home the fun began and I laid out a plan for my kitchen garden and began landscaping around my home with the flowers I had dug up and adding that good rich dirt to my poor soil and before I knew it I had beautiful gardens growing. Each year I would add something new to it and enlarge them and my harvests were bountiful and lovely. My garden reached full maturity in about 5 years and it was beautiful.

Then came the flood….. in 2015 the creek flooded behind my home and washed everything away. The little decorative fencing, the shrubs I just planted and of course the flowers and good dirt and the mulch. It was all gone except for the bricks around my kitchen garden. I was heartsick and heartbroken because a lot of my plants had come from my great aunts home and she had passed away earlier that year. The flood was so bad I had to go stay with my daughter for a couple of weeks. Fortunately I lived in a mobile home and the flood took most of the skirting but it didn’t damage my home.

After the flood I decided to move to a different park to get away from the creek. I moved in January 2016 and because it was winter when I moved I couldn’t really take anything with me so come spring I had a new yard with nothing but an old tree in it. During this time I was struggling with Parkinson’s Disease and retiring out on disability from my job so my funds were rather limited. I had no idea what I could do in my yard with flowers, a few vegetables and a limited income. I didn’t even know if I wanted to bother with it again. I felt I was back in the depressive slump like when I first left the United Pentecostal Church and trying to work through the legalism and abuse.

Then I opened a box of books in my office and I saw a Bible and when I picked it up it opened to Genesis 2:8, “The Lord God planted a garden”….and His word penetrated my heart….and I knew I was going to rebuild and replant my garden even though I was still heartsick over the loss of my other garden.

I knew it was easier to quit than to commit to another plan and process but I would rebuild. Sometimes the joy of today is destroyed by the joy of the past. But I couldn’t let myself be stuck in the past. I was going to choose joy and “rejoice in the Lord always” (Phil 4:4) just as I did before.

Although it was easier to stay upset and hurt than forgive, I knew I needed to forgive the Park I moved from for refusing to pay for any of the damage that was caused by the flood….even though it was their fault by putting trees and leaves in the dry creek which caused it to channel the water straight to my home and gardens…so I forgave and moved on (Matt 5:23-24).

I chose to plan, prepare and plant passionately with the abundant life I had through Christ Jesus (John 10:10) and I worshiped God and praised Him continually as I replanted (Psalm 34:1). And God helped me with strength and finding bargains at the nurseries like never before. I continued to love my new garden and although it wasn’t as large as before it was coming together and was bringing beauty to my yard and spirit. (1 Cor 13:8).

So I did rebuild and replanted and this year I will add more and enlarge my garden and I will finish well. By not giving up or giving in to the disaster, I succeeded by perseverance and my garden grew. Just like my soul grew as I healed from spiritual abuse….and I finally found truth in Gods grace and mercy.

Romans 5:1-5 sums it up like this…”Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. And not only that, but we also glory in tribulations, knowing that tribulation produces perseverance; and perseverance, character, and character, hope. Now hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us.”

Sunday Night Fright Night

The stage was set, the tones were hushed, – weeping and moaning could be heard – and the sweat was pouring amid the hot summer breeze blowing through the open windows. We were reaching the climax of another “evangelistic” Sunday night service at my United Pentecostal Church. The building was small and inadequate for the crowds, as was the air conditioning system. Our pastor’s preaching style was starting slowly with a scripture, a title, and then launching into various Old Testament stories and ending with stories of car wrecks, God’s impending judgement on women who didn’t follow the rules, and those waiting too late to “pray back through.”

He was a very large, imposing man and he could be very dramatic in his sermons; visually displaying how the devil had his way with Job, as he scraped his sores. He acted out the stories of Rizpah, shooing away the vultures from the seven slaughtered sons of Saul, staggering back as poor Naomi who would have to be called Mara (meaning bitter) because she went out full and came back empty; no husband, no children, and of course pitiful blind Samson, who didn’t even know when God’s spirit left him. (This thought would haunt me for the rest of my life.)

All of these sermons were meant to create a sense of urgency in the audience to come rushing to the altar benches in front of the pews at the end of the service to plead with God for mercy one more time. This scene was repeated each Sunday night in my United Pentecostal Church. The purpose this served in my life was to make me very fearful of God and not the kind of fear the Bible describes. As a young girl, the first concepts taught to me about God were that of someone who would only love me if I was good enough. If not, He would yank the Spirit right out of me or maybe like Samson it would drift out and I wouldn’t even know it. The long term effect of living with this kind of fear in my life is that I have always taken on the guilt of everything. Every circumstance that comes in to my life causes me to question “is it my fault?” I even dream up circumstances to blame myself for. And since our emotions can’t think, they tend to stick with you through life despite the facts that you know.

Fear and guilt are used as a means of gaining control over the members of these churches. You see, these are not the meek and mild ministers you see in movies, they are in total control. In fact, the churches in the area I am in are not even called by their name but by Brother So and So’s church; whoever the pastor is at the time. You are not to question his authority. These ministers make up strict behavioral rules for you to obey; how to dress and how to comb your hair. If you are going to be allowed to participate you must be following the rules.

Those who don’t follow the rules are disapproved of and seen as the dreaded “worldly.” We were told what we could listen to, where we could go, and what we could do. Fear is used to keep people from leaving the church; you are told there is no alternative, if you leave here you will lose your salvation. It was always stressed that your “church family” is really closer to you than your real family. Why would you ever leave?

But, is this God’s approach to drawing people to Himself? If God’s highest desire is for man’s love and obedience, is it won based on fear of punishment? The answer is no. God’s approach to win man’s love and obedience is love.

“…not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentance?” Romans 2:4b NKJV

“For God so loved the world…John 3:16a NKJV

“But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us,even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.” Ephesians 2:4-7 NKJV

^“For the love of Christ compels us…” II Corinthians 5: 14a NKJV

If You Were To Die Tonight

If you were to die tonight, where would you spend eternity?

I saw this again the other day and I set it aside as I wanted to write about it. I grow so weary with seeing things like this. Unhealthy churches distort the Gospel and they change people’s focus from God to other things. Relationship with God is replaced with performance based religion. The message of grace is twisted and people develop warped views of God due to the faulty teachings and practices. It is about escaping hell. It becomes about bringing people to their church and not necessarily into a relationship with God. Let me give an example of what I believe to be this faulty evangelism focus.

Tim Downs is an Apostolic evangelist and pastor. His stated vision is to train Apostolics (Oneness Pentecostals) how to win souls and reach the lost. Some years back he released a poorly made DVD titled, Do You Want To Go To Heaven Or Hell (screenshot), which was touted as a ‘soul winning’ method. (The first link takes you to the film on YouTube and the second to a print out of his method.)

His approach involves asking people if they want to go to heaven or hell and then he quickly transports them to a church, gets them water baptized and attempts to pray them through to tongues. The approach seems to be to avoid hell and because of this, I view it as motivated through fear. People who come to a church or God that way often do not last and understandably so. Besides not becoming rooted, they are not hearing about the love of God and how much he cares for them. Instead, it becomes about fleeing eternal torment and is a seemingly ‘quick fix’ to that scenario.

Take note the scripted discussion in the video. Do you notice the wrong emphasis? How does this compare to what we see in the New Testament, of when believers were sharing the Gospel to someone who didn’t know? Here it is all about avoiding hell and being baptized ‘the right way.’ This causes people to believe they need to follow a few steps and they are assured of going to heaven. It’s about what THEY must do to be saved. Hey- that’s what the initial focus and hurry is all about- going to heaven or going to hell. It isn’t about coming to know Jesus.

The method used by Downs, and similar ones by others, misses what becoming a believer is about. It isn’t about going to heaven or hell. Church today is so messed up that it has strayed so far from early Christian practices that in many ways it bears little resemblance.

If you are using this misguided focus to reach people, please stop to take a long, hard look at what you see in the New Testament. Do you recall Peter, Phillip, John, Paul or any of the others ask people something like “If you were to die tonight, where would you spend eternity?” or “Do you want to go to heaven or hell?” Even Jesus himself never went around asking these questions. Did they focus on getting people baptized ‘the right way’ or was it about having a new life with Jesus? Was it about numbers being added to a church’s or evangelist’s statistics, or was it about how God loves us and the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus and what that means to them?

While such methods may produce numbers which may seem impressive without further investigation, what are the long term results? Are people doing what is told them simply to have a false assurance that they will go to heaven? Like with the scare tactic of the rapture messages, how many go for a short time and then leave or not even return at all after their initial encounter? Let’s use Downs’ own statistics as some food for thought.

On his evangelism website, Downs writes that in 2011 he left evangelizing to pastor a church in Georgia. It is stated, “In the first year they baptized over 712 people in the name of Jesus…” Yet when we go to the church website, we find that “They have seen incredible growth since opening the church on May 1, 2011 with having an attendance of 200-300 on a regular basis.” What happened to those several hundred missing people from the first year and who knows how many in the years thereafter? Did they ever come to know Jesus or have a one on one relationship with him? Or was it nothing more than avoiding hell and wanting to go to heaven? These are things we should seriously ponder.

The question should never be “If you were to die tonight, where would you spend eternity?” Rather, the focus should be on the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus and believing and placing faith in him. It should be about God’s love for us and on having a personal relationship with God. It isn’t about heaven or hell, but about knowing and following our Creator.

[2023 Edit: Since this was written in April 2017, Downs and his wife Holly divorced and in July 2019, he married his daughter-in-law, Stephanie, whom his son had married in 2012. He is pastor of Hope Center in Michigan City, Indiana. It is touted as a “a non-denominational church,” but is Oneness Pentecostal.]