Category: Pentecostal | Page 6 | Spiritual Abuse Blogs

Church Shopping

Well, I had an interesting experience today- I went to a Pentecostal service in another city. Visited a couple other things on the way, so part of the day went well…

Wow. I had thought since every church is different, I should give another Pentecostal church a chance, at least. Haha. They were actually quite friendly, telling me that they hoped to see me again and then when I hedged, telling me they’d see me their next service, asking where I was from, and announcing where I was from when I specifically said not to!

But they were trying to be nice, and as far as I can tell the pastor and his people are kind. Actually after service there was some work to be done, and the pastor asked if some men could help him with it. He walked off the platform started working, himself, right alongside everyone else. That was the first time I saw that in years.

The service was typical Pentecostal. Very good music. Milder worship than I’m used to, thankfully, just some clapping and singing- no squeals, spinning, dancing, running, leaping or spells.

Sunday School was OK, but the lesson didn’t use many scriptures and was kind of disjointed. The message was a bunch of catch phrases thrown together. I sat there listening, and although it would have been considered a “deep” lesson, and “anointed” preaching, I felt sorry for them. Some study had gone into both, but I realized that it’s no wonder I can’t remember what’s preached in a Pentecostal service- there’s too many bits and pieces splattered all over the place to really pin it down. I wonder sometimes if the preacher remembers the message after he has preached it, it’s so fractured!

No one tried to pray me through, no one pushed worship or tried to up the excitement level. Those things were good. And I enjoy hearing the songs I’m familiar with. But it amazed me how different my perspective on what constitutes a “good” message is now, and how disjointed the messages really are in Pentecostal services I’ve experienced.

So the search continues…

I went to a denominational church earlier this morning that was more liturgical. They sang “Lord prepare me (to be a sanctuary).” I always liked that song. They sang all four lines and stopped dead! And did it again on Kum ba Yah. (Yes, they really did sing it. I couldn’t believe it either!) Once through, and done. After being in a church where a normal chorus must be sung 20 times to start to feel the spirit, it was a shock!

Anyway, so it was a very interesting day.

Informational post on speaking in tongues #10

This is just a little ‘did you know’ informational post on the subject of speaking in tongues, shared as some food for thought. It is for those reading this blog series who wish to know my beliefs.

I believe in the gifts of the Spirit, including speaking in tongues, and that they are available today. In addition to the nine often focused upon in Pentecostal churches (1 Corinthians 12), the Bible does mention others. Nowhere can I find where the Bible teaches that tongues are necessary evidence of Spirit baptism or a matter of salvation.

There is a wrong overemphasis on speaking in tongues in some churches (as well as an equal lack of emphasis regarding other gifts), in addition to their misuse, like there was among the Corinthian believers. The Bible says very little about speaking in tongues, with the most being found in 1 Corinthians 12 & 14, where correction and teaching were given by Paul.

I believe the Bible teaches that tongues do not have a place in a gathering of believers unless there is an accompanying interpretation or unless there are those present who understand the language(s) being spoken, such as in Acts 2. This is based upon what Paul taught in 1 Corinthians 12-14 with regard to the gifts.

Nowhere in the Bible do I see speaking in tongues as anything more than one of many gifts of the Spirit that a believer might possibly receive. Paul showed that all do not speak in tongues and that we should desire gifts that edify all and not only ourselves.

In none of my blogs am I trying to discredit or say that speaking in tongues isn’t for today. They are not at all trying to take from anyone’s experience. What they ARE trying to do, is put tongues in what I believe to be their proper biblical place – one of many gifts of the Spirit a believer might or might not receive. I see it as nothing more and nothing less. They are also meant to bring attention to instances where things are read into the Bible and assumed, which leads to erroneous teachings. This includes the thought that tongues are an angelic or heavenly language or a groaning.

The main point I am trying to make with these posts is that in the Bible, there is nothing that tells or shows us that speaking in tongues is a matter of salvation, the initial sign of receiving God’s Spirit, or was expected and emphasized as it is today. The truth that it is mentioned so few times in the Bible, with the majority of them being Paul’s instructions on their proper use and showing how they were misused by a group of believers, shows that today’s overemphasis on them- especially in saying they are mandatory- is in error.

We have been taught things about this subject that are not true, often have not compared our practices with what we see in the Bible, and many can only see the teachings and passages through what their church teaches. It is important to allow the scriptures to speak for themselves and not be seen through the glasses of any church or organization.

Unaskable Questions

Where I’m from, we weren’t allowed to ask questions about certain things. We were expected to ask the pastor who we should marry or at least if we could marry this person or that one. But we couldn’t ask basic questions about things that happened at church. So I’ve decided to list a few here. I reverence God and the things of God. These are a few questions I’ve had through the years. No offense meant to anyone… Just a few rather unorthodox thoughts.

If praise and worship are action verbs, why do we so often pray and say, “Jesus, I praise you. Oh, God, I worship you.” Why not just do it?
Why do we call dancing and leaping “shouting?” A shout requires a vocal response, preferably intelligible…
What is the screaming and squealing for in church? I scream when I’m afraid, not when I’m happy.
Does the quality of the sound system and the decibels it is cranked to really have anything to do with God’s anointing?
Why do we work so hard to “create an atmosphere where people can get the Holy Ghost” if God loves us and the Holy Ghost is His free gift?
Why, after working so hard to “create an atmosphere,” do all the kids at camp seem to pray through when we blow the circuits and the lights go out?
Why are we told to seek the free gift of the Holy Ghost? Most gifts I’ve ever been given were placed in front of me or into my hands by the giver. Rarely have I had to go hunt one down!
Why do camps and conferences seem so much more electrified and charged than weekly services in our home churches? God is the same everywhere, after all.
Why do some people think it is wrong to drink or smoke because we shouldn’t destroy the temple of the Holy Ghost, yet claim that God tells them to do things in worship that could damage the church property or could cause an accident that could hurt other people or themselves?

Witnessing: telling others about Jesus.
Testifying: telling others what Jesus has done for you.
Door-knocking: knocking on door after door and giving people an invitation to church.
Then why do we say we are going “witnessing” when we are just handing a card to people that open their doors?

Why does it take ten minutes to take prayer requests, and only a minute to pray for them all?

How many people who say they’ll be praying for a situation only mention it to God in passing once?

If we really have faith, should we pray for something for days or weeks, or should we just pray once and trust God for the answer? Why, when I have a need, is the first more comforting than the second? Do I think God will forget they prayed, or do I just enjoy the fact that people are thinking of me?

If God is our friend and Father, why do we talk to him so differently than we would a… well… friend or father?

If someone regularly came to me and said they could talk to me for the next 30 minutes, and then watched the clock the entire time… if they talked for the whole 30 minutes but never really said anything, if they yelled at me and made strange faces… I’d begin to think they were pretty rude fairly quickly.

What is wrong with doubt? John the Baptist doubted as he sat in prison. Peter doubted when he stepped out of the boat. Thomas doubted that Jesus had risen. What is wrong with admitting our doubts?

And last but not least, why are these questions unaskable? What is so intimidating about them? The fact that there are questions, or the answers to them?

Informational post on speaking in tongues #8

This is just a little ‘did you know’ informational post on the subject of speaking in tongues, shared as some food for thought. It goes along with a previous blog where I stated, “Did you know that there are only three instances in the entire book of Acts where it is said that believers spoke in tongues? They are Acts 2, 10 and 19. (Acts 8 cannot be included as it never once mentions tongues…)”

I believe Acts 8 should not be included in the list of passages in Acts which show believers speaking in tongues simply because it never once mentions it happening. It is not good practice to assume or read into the scripture and base doctrine upon that assumption. Do you really want what you believe and teach to be based on assumptions?

Even United Pentecostal General Superintendent David Bernard, in The New Birth, admits that this is assumed when he writes on page 231, “The account of Acts 8 of the Samaritans who received the Holy Ghost does not explicitly mention speaking in tongues; it gives no description of signs of their Spirit baptism. …It is logical to assume that this sign was speaking in tongues.”

So why is this assumed? It is based upon two thoughts:

1) Simon practiced sorcery in Samaria and he offered the apostles money to have the ability to lay his hands on people so they would receive the Holy Spirit. It is said he would not have done so if nothing visible happened.
2) In the three instances previously mentioned, the believers spoke in tongues after the Spirit came upon them.

Let’s briefly look at these.

Something that is often overlooked is that before the two apostles joined them, Simon had been following Philip all around Samaria. There were paralyzed and lame people healed. Some were possessed and had unclean spirits cast out. Though Simon had bewitched many with his magic, he was impressed by these miracles and signs. He was obviously seeing much more than he had ever done. He had not healed or delivered those people. The NASB says that Simon was “constantly amazed” at what he witnessed.

In this, and considering what Peter said to him after he offered the money, it isn’t surprising that this happened. Simon had just seen a lot of miracles and the laying on of hands may have just been the icing on the cake, so to speak, which prompted him to offer money. Did something happen when Peter and John laid hands on the people? I do not argue against that. Yet we do not know with any certainty what occurred as Luke was silent on the matter. Perhaps they spoke in tongues. Perhaps something else happened.

In Acts 2 and 10, it is clearly stated that they spoke in tongues. Yet in Acts 19, it mentions both speaking in tongues and prophecy, without mentioning if all spoke in tongues and all prophesied, or some did one and some did the other.

Since we have only two instances in Acts where tongues are seen and one where tongues and prophecy are mentioned, is it wise to assume and teach that in Acts 8 it must have been speaking in tongues?

Informational post on speaking in tongues #7

This is just a little ‘did you know’ informational post on the subject of speaking in tongues, shared as some food for thought. It goes along with a previous blog where I stated, “Did you know that there are only three instances in the entire book of Acts where it is said that believers spoke in tongues? They are Acts 2, 10 and 19.” In this segment, we will look further into Acts 19.

Did you ever wonder why little attention is often paid to a portion of Acts 19:6 in Pentecostal type churches? Are you even aware that the men in Ephesus prophesied or do you only recall speaking in tongues being mentioned? Should one be emphasized more than the other in the passage?

After the Holy Spirit came upon these men, scripture mentions speaking in tongues and prophecy, without specifying if all spoke in tongues and all prophesied, or some did one and some did the other. We have no way of knowing how it happened from the text. It is usually assumed by Pentecostals that all twelve spoke in tongues, but we do not really know. Have you ever pondered this?

Is it not interesting that both speaking in tongues and prophecy are mentioned by the Apostle Paul in 1 Corinthians 12 as being gifts of the Spirit? Have you ever considered that all speaking in tongues is this gift and nothing else?

Acts 19:6:

And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied. KJV
Then when Paul laid his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in other tongues and prophesied. NLT
And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they began speaking with tongues and prophesying. NASB
When Paul placed his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied. NIV