Category: Oneness Pentecostal | Page 58

Informational post on speaking in tongues #8

This is just a little ‘did you know’ informational post on the subject of speaking in tongues, shared as some food for thought. It goes along with a previous blog where I stated, “Did you know that there are only three instances in the entire book of Acts where it is said that believers spoke in tongues? They are Acts 2, 10 and 19. (Acts 8 cannot be included as it never once mentions tongues…)”

I believe Acts 8 should not be included in the list of passages in Acts which show believers speaking in tongues simply because it never once mentions it happening. It is not good practice to assume or read into the scripture and base doctrine upon that assumption. Do you really want what you believe and teach to be based on assumptions?

Even United Pentecostal General Superintendent David Bernard, in The New Birth, admits that this is assumed when he writes on page 231, “The account of Acts 8 of the Samaritans who received the Holy Ghost does not explicitly mention speaking in tongues; it gives no description of signs of their Spirit baptism. …It is logical to assume that this sign was speaking in tongues.”

So why is this assumed? It is based upon two thoughts:

1) Simon practiced sorcery in Samaria and he offered the apostles money to have the ability to lay his hands on people so they would receive the Holy Spirit. It is said he would not have done so if nothing visible happened.
2) In the three instances previously mentioned, the believers spoke in tongues after the Spirit came upon them.

Let’s briefly look at these.

Something that is often overlooked is that before the two apostles joined them, Simon had been following Philip all around Samaria. There were paralyzed and lame people healed. Some were possessed and had unclean spirits cast out. Though Simon had bewitched many with his magic, he was impressed by these miracles and signs. He was obviously seeing much more than he had ever done. He had not healed or delivered those people. The NASB says that Simon was “constantly amazed” at what he witnessed.

In this, and considering what Peter said to him after he offered the money, it isn’t surprising that this happened. Simon had just seen a lot of miracles and the laying on of hands may have just been the icing on the cake, so to speak, which prompted him to offer money. Did something happen when Peter and John laid hands on the people? I do not argue against that. Yet we do not know with any certainty what occurred as Luke was silent on the matter. Perhaps they spoke in tongues. Perhaps something else happened.

In Acts 2 and 10, it is clearly stated that they spoke in tongues. Yet in Acts 19, it mentions both speaking in tongues and prophecy, without mentioning if all spoke in tongues and all prophesied, or some did one and some did the other.

Since we have only two instances in Acts where tongues are seen and one where tongues and prophecy are mentioned, is it wise to assume and teach that in Acts 8 it must have been speaking in tongues?

Informational post on speaking in tongues #7

This is just a little ‘did you know’ informational post on the subject of speaking in tongues, shared as some food for thought. It goes along with a previous blog where I stated, “Did you know that there are only three instances in the entire book of Acts where it is said that believers spoke in tongues? They are Acts 2, 10 and 19.” In this segment, we will look further into Acts 19.

Did you ever wonder why little attention is often paid to a portion of Acts 19:6 in Pentecostal type churches? Are you even aware that the men in Ephesus prophesied or do you only recall speaking in tongues being mentioned? Should one be emphasized more than the other in the passage?

After the Holy Spirit came upon these men, scripture mentions speaking in tongues and prophecy, without specifying if all spoke in tongues and all prophesied, or some did one and some did the other. We have no way of knowing how it happened from the text. It is usually assumed by Pentecostals that all twelve spoke in tongues, but we do not really know. Have you ever pondered this?

Is it not interesting that both speaking in tongues and prophecy are mentioned by the Apostle Paul in 1 Corinthians 12 as being gifts of the Spirit? Have you ever considered that all speaking in tongues is this gift and nothing else?

Acts 19:6:

And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied. KJV
Then when Paul laid his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in other tongues and prophesied. NLT
And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they began speaking with tongues and prophesying. NASB
When Paul placed his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied. NIV

Leaving Church

Over the past few years, I’ve looked at several of the various oddities within this church, the conservative movement I was a part of, and Pentecost as a whole. No one would answer my questions for a long time. The answer was always to go ask the pastor. When I asked the pastor I was told that I was rebellious or thought I was smarter than him. I was expected to accept what was preached as gospel, and never look to the gospel or the God of the gospel for answers beyond the pulpit.

I hope these are anomalies- that they are not common in Pentecost. But the more I have read, the more I realize that I’m not alone in my experiences.

For a long time I refused to consider leaving the church, because they preached Jesus name baptism, Holy Ghost, and holiness of dress. But questions about other teachings started creeping into my mind. After two separate incidents, a year apart, when I was accused and charged guilty of something without being given a chance to explain (or in the second case to even know what they were talking about), I started looking into the scriptures more thoroughly. I stopped reading the Bible, but if something seemed strange, I’d reference the passage and read it in several versions if need be.

Several things began to disturb me:

The belief that the pastor was always right, and that he could not be questioned.
The concept that if the pastor said to do something, it must be done.
Preference of one person over another.
Letting down on standards held for decades, while still arguing that others (who used the same reasons for letting down on other things) were wrong.
Making women lesser saints.
Not allowing women to be as involved.
Catch phrases that demanded a shout.
Rebukes for not shouting on catch phrases, or not shouting enough.
Meaningless songs with a few words repeated over and over and over and…

It’s sad, really. I didn’t want to leave, and I never thought I would stop believing certain things. I’ve wondered if I would have been better off if I’d left months or years ago when the problems started. I miss my church friends, but there weren’t that many of them. I miss church activities to a degree. But I’m not sad to leave.

I wonder what will happen now, where I’ll go or what I’ll do. Will there be a church I feel comfortable in? Where? When? Should I take time off from church or plow back into it? Should I go to a Oneness church or just let that go? Will I ever be able to marry now that I’ve left? Will I put too much emphasis on a new pastor, following the old, ingrained rules?

There are no answers to these questions, but I’m satisfied. At first after leaving I crammed on books about exit and spiritual abuse. I don’t feel like doing that now. Maybe I should- I’ve been told it takes years to work through the problems. Maybe I just wasn’t treated that badly, or maybe its just that somewhere I still believe that I’m not leaving God just because I walk out the doors of a particular church.

In that particular way, I feel miles ahead of the ministers and saints I’ve talked to. Almost all of them think I need a pastor and need this church. Not so. I need God. And my pastor is not my god, and my church is not my god. My God fills the universe, but also stepped into time and was crucified to a cross… and rose again. His grace is sufficient, and I’ll trust Him.

“We don’t want problems” – Mary’s royal gripe session

My name was probably removed from the roll this weekend. I’m really sad. I don’t know what I expected, but this wasn’t it. The pastor has never tried to contact me. Only four people have called. Some of my best friends never even called. We’re supposed to go to service four times a week. I haven’t been for three weeks and no one ever called?!

They think that church attendance is necessary for salvation, but no one is concerned enough for my soul- not my friends, and not the pastor- to call and see what’s happened, or to try to work things out? What happened to the Biblical methods of restoring such an one in the spirit of meekness? Of searching for the lost coin or the lost sheep? Jesus came to seek and save… why would the church sit on its hands and says “good riddance?” I’ve seen this before from inside, heard the stories of how wrong those who leave are. I shouldn’t be surprised, but I am.

Adding to that is the knowledge that many other Oneness Pentecostal churches will not accept me. It’s wrong to have to call a church and ask permission to attend because I went to the same denomination before, to be required to explain- very carefully so as not to incriminate the pastor- why I might have ‘problems.’ So I won’t. Even pastors who tell me to get back in church don’t want me at theirs! I am not sure what they expect me to do, because the situation at my former church is untenable, but I can’t tell anyone else what is happening; I can’t prove much and most of what I can prove is considered acceptable or within the bounds of ‘ministry.’ I DO NOT believe that being called a heifer or other derogatory terms is considered ministry.

If a pastor tells you he could care less if you attend or not or if other churches will not allow you to attend because “they don’t want problems,” yet all believe that if you don’t go to church you are in disobedience to the Bible, and that you can go to hell for that, then they are effectively saying “Go to Hell.” What kind of Christian attitude is that? What kind of Christian attitude does the person have who says they are a leader and therefore cannot be questioned, or who says that a person is in rebellion for questioning certain words or actions? What happened to love, mercy and grace?

Video

I prayed through in a church where TV “in the home” was preached against. However, the pastor admitted to having gone to friends’ homes to watch TV as a kid. He also allowed the saints to have a VCR and monitor. He even eventually got one. I watched more PG movies in the six months after I got in church than I had in the world. Many of us would also go to places like Walmart and watch movies there.

Later, another pastor ended up teaching against TV, video, moving pictures, monitors- I wasn’t even sure it was acceptable to go to a play. So here is what’s funny to me: There could be no VCRs, movies, or TV. Sometimes YouTube was also preached against. But at least some would watch video clips online at work regularly. Several emailed me video clips, too. And video games that look exactly like cartoons were never taught against at all.

I’m a very visual person. To me, video is an art form, if done tastefully. But I didn’t watch a movie or TV for years because it was ‘wrong.’ Not biblically wrong, pastorally wrong.

I don’t have a pastor now. Yesterday I checked out three videos from the library. Last night was the first time in my life I’d ever watched a video in my own home. And I cried. I don’t even know why. It wasn’t that I felt guilty. Maybe I was so relieved to be able to chose to do something just for the enjoyment of it. It was a beautiful movie. And it felt so nice to be able to just do something for the fun of it!

I’ve heard video preached against because we remember so much of what we see. However, we must remember that not everything we see is bad.

Do we truly remember more of a video than we do of real life? It may seem that way at first, but in reality, we haven’t- it’s just that in real life we remember snapshots of scenes. The best movies are simply limited to a well-directed series of these types of snapshots. This creates an illusion of remembering more from the movie than real life, when in fact we are still just remembering snapshots of the best pieces of life.

I will set no wicked thing before mine eyes: I hate the work of them that turn aside; it shall not cleave to me. (Ps 101:3) Obviously no verse in the Bible speaks specifically against television or movies. However, this verse has been used in many circles to show people they should not watch movies or TV. We should, indeed, be careful not to engross ourselves in anything that is wicked- book, TV, movie, everyday life… but if we used this verse to say that TV or movies on the whole were wrong, then we would need to go through life with our eyes closed. Those who walk with their eyes closed are most likely to fall.