I couldn’t stay once I read it in the bible for myself.
I couldn’t stay any longer when I found out that a lot of what I believed was added into scripture.
I couldn’t stay any longer once my eyes where open to the pride.
I couldn’t stay any longer when the inconsistencies in scripture were too big to ignore any longer.
I couldn’t stay any longer when after 13 years in, I still didn’t know if I was saved or not.
I couldn’t stay any longer when after 13 years I didn’t know who or what was going to save me in the end.
I couldn’t stay any longer when pastor after pastor, preacher after preacher constantly contradicted each other.
I couldn’t stay any longer when I found out other Christians loved Jesus and had a relationship with Him (I was lead to believe both of those where false) yet they didn’t hold to the same soteriology I did.
I couldn’t stay any longer when I found out about grace.
I couldn’t stay any longer and listen to the hatred, depression, fear induced, cliché, non-biblical preaching.
So, what did I do? I left Oneness Pentecostalism. It was by far the hardest thing I have ever had to do. It was the most traumatic experience in my life and it didn’t happen overnight. Did I ‘backslide?’ No, I did the exact opposite. I found Jesus.
Editorial Note: The following is reprinted with permission from Eleanor Skelton’s blog. It was originally published on November 30, 2014.
Like ships in the night You keep passing me by We’re just wasting time Trying to prove who’s right And if it all goes crashing into the sea If it’s just you and me Trying to find the light.
– Mat Kearney, Ships in the Night
So much religious noise, all around me…
“No, Eleanor, you have to receive the Holy Ghost and speak in tongues, and be baptized in my church, because it’s the only true Pentecostal church in Colorado Springs. I know you’re a Christian, but you aren’t Apostolic.”
“I’m a five point Calvinist. Human beings are utterly depraved and cannot be saved except by prompting of the Holy Spirit.”
“You don’t love Jesus, because you don’t obey his commandments.”
…I live in Colorado Springs, ok? Dubbed the Christian Mecca, due to Focus on the Family, Compassion International, the Navigators, and New Life Church.
And I have friends from nearly every denomination, and many friends of other beliefs.
Since I’m friendly and very extroverted, I often get well-meaning people trying to convince me of this or that doctrine. Or try to get me to go to their church when I’m not seeking another place to attend. My friend Cynthia B. calls this “church cannibalism.”
It all feels the same at the bottom – do you see me, do you value me as an individual? Do you care about me outside of earning brownie points for your church or god?
And if I don’t agree, then more convincing is in order.
It’s the principle, it’s the issue / that your principle would dismiss you. / Because you don’t fit into that All-American Box, / that coffin created for creative thought.
I’m not denying that objective truth exists. But as imperfect humans, how do we know that we are properly interpreting that truth?
Academic research in 2009 indicates that humans have a strong tendency to make God agree with us, to anthropomorphize our deities.
Shouldn’t Christians be different, if we believe the verse we quote so much:
“For who has known the mind of the Lord, or who has been his counselor?”
I think this is where fundamentalism for any belief becomes Pharisaical, looking for outward signs when no one knows anyone else’s heart.
One of Relevant magazine’s latest pieces, “Wrestling with Faith and Doubt,” addresses this:
“We never find Jesus calling someone a heretic because they interpreted an Old Testament story figuratively when it was supposed to be read literally or vice-versa.”
And the writer points out that in these details, we miss the endgame of Jesus’ message, loving God and our neighbor.
What if we were all just truth-seeking together, admitting sometimes we get it wrong? I admire people in the church who can say their well-meant methods didn’t work.
One of my pastor friends said at a conference last spring:
“I have a master’s in Christian education, and I thought discipleship was you get a bunch of people together and you do a Beth Moore Bible study, or a Henry Blackaby Bible study, and that’s what I did for years, but I was wrong.”
He discovered discipleship in community, bonding with others, not rote memorization.
Most of my spiritual journey has been finding where I got tangled, reaching for the light on the other side.
Rather than forcing change on everyone else, I’d rather seek out where I am wrong, to find spiritual healing for myself. The plank-in-the-eye metaphor is actually helpful here.
Because, like my pastor friend said about following Jesus:
“Some people make this complicated. It’s real simple. It’s so simple, it’s subversive.”
I appealed in a letter to the senior pastor because I doubted that my email would get to him. It didn’t do much good. He didn’t respond to me directly. Instead he told the other pastors and counselor (3 against one) to invite me to a brief meeting. It was only five minutes and they did most of the talking. Basically the assistant pastor apologized to me for any misunderstanding and all was forgiven. But I still came out of that meeting feeling humiliated and lied to. In fact I went into the sanctuary because the meeting had started and I couldn’t hold my tears back for about ten minutes.
On Mother’s Day the senior pastor didn’t pray for the mothers. He didn’t even ask them to stand to honor or bless them. He knew I am a mother of five. His own mother according to him was an alcoholic. That could be why he didn’t want to honor mothers. Well, they did show a short clip on the screen in honor of Mother’s Day but other than that he spent most of the service nagging or at least that’s what it felt like.
He was preparing for a three-day event of evangelism with his favorite pastors, so he asked people, “Who wanted to pray?” I think the congregation was a little surprised that he dismissed Mother’s Day in order to make it more important to pray for the three-day event. So people weren’t raising their hands at first. Then he started to really nag with his voice raised. Finally a few people started raising their hands. But as he was nagging he was saying, “If anybody doesn’t like my personality because I get angry sometimes there’s the door!” and he motioned to the exit door. I felt that God was prompting me to let that be my last day there. I felt the pastor said that and handled Mother’s Day that way to send a message to me that if I am to stay there that I shouldn’t question or check the character of the pastor against scripture.
I had enough. So I left and never came back. I did email one last time with a proposal that 1. They would put a footer in the bottom of their emails with a policy for emailing. 2. That they would have a sexual harassment seminar. 3. I would get a little bit of compensation money for having to go to therapy. I checked myself into a therapist and they confirmed it wasn’t a healthy church.
You could say I was a little ticked off. Ultimately I followed my convictions the best I knew how. But I did learn I need to use more discretion in the future with somebody of the opposite sex. I need to be more clear, concise and really limit any biblical advice to no more than twice if I don’t get a response. Then leave a church when there is a clear refusal from leadership to check their character or system against God’s standards.
He that reproveth a scorner getteth to himself shame: and he that rebuketh a wicked man getteth himself a blot. Reprove not a scorner, lest he hate thee: rebuke a wise man, and he will love thee.
Proverbs 9:7-8
Editorial Note: The following is reprinted with permission from Elizabeth Burger’s blog. It was originally published on October 20, 2016.
Note: this post contains some names that were changed to protect the people mentioned. Any name with an asterisk [*] next to it has been changed. This is part 2 in a series. You can find part 1 here.
Photo by Elizabeth Burger
I shared the gist of the letter with my family at a shared meal. They immediately defended the pastor and the church elders saying that perhaps it was simply how our denomination operated, and that I should check the book of church order to see what I could find there. So I went upstairs after lunch and did a google search and began skimming the book (which was online for easy access) to find anything relevant.
Unbeknownst to me, one of my sisters decided she would help me out by e-mailing the pastor my question. She carbon copied me in the e-mail. Below I have the entire e-mail history, only taking out things that would hurt the anonymity of my sister and family.
Hello Pastor John*, March 12, 2015 11:28 AM
I have a question for you.
When a member leaves the church (local church), is there a set protocol (from the Small Reformed Church* book of Church order) that the leadership takes in dealing with the member? Elizabeth has been looking for the answer in the book of Church order, but hasn’t found anything yet.
We are trying to understand why things happened the way they did with a lot of our friends who have left SRC, and wanted to see if we could find some answers.
Let me know your thoughts when you have a moment. 🙂
In Him,
Sister*
Meanwhile, I had found the answers I was searching for. Most of what was in the letter was called for as a part of our denominations rules. (if you want to read the specifics look here (sections 46.1-4 and 38.3b and 38.4).
March 12, 2015 12:48 PM
The quick answer (and I’d be happy to go through it more detailed in person if you like) is that the BCO (chap 37?) details how we should handle people leaving a local church.
If they a) go to another Bible believing, gospel preaching church we transfer them, if they b) go to an apostate or heretical church we call them back, or c) if they just stop coming to any church we call them back, and if they refuse, we warn them. In the last year (my tenure here), we’ve had people in all three categories.
Though we hate to see anyone leave, if people move to another church in situation A, we wish them well. If it is B or C, we have a duty to lovingly call them back, or urge them to A, because a person who moves to an apostate church, or breaks fellowship with the church permanently is a person who moves into a Matthew 18 category.
Again, I’m happy to talk to you, or your sister, about this in more detail in person, or Elizabeth can call me.
I may not be able to discuss every situation (as it wouldn’t be fair to the people involved) but I’m happy to speak as plainly and openly about any situation as I can.
See you soon.
John* Last Name
——-
March 12, 2015 2:00 PM
I erred a moment ago because I was not at the office. I just looked up the appropriate chapters. Look at chapter 46.1-4 and chapter 38.3b and 38.4 for more.
Also, and I may be jumping the gun or getting this totally turned around, but in certain cases where people leave or break with a church, they may claim to have been mistreated, or may tell tales of woe. This may be the case. But, it may not. Often only portions of the truth are told.
Feel free to talk to me or the other elders if you or Elizabeth feel we have mistreated anyone. Though we are not perfect, in my time here, I’m happy to answer to you and ultimately to God for any action we’ve taken.
John* Last Name
——-
March 12, 2015 3:49 PM
If you wanted to, another possible avenue would be for you to meet with the session if you have specific concerns. I would not want you or your sister or anyone at Small Reformed Church to feel we were hiding something from you.
Let me know if you or Elizabeth would be interested in that.
John* Last Name
During this time, I had spoken with two deacons’ wives and other families who had left. I was planning on speaking with the elders families when I came back home again for summer break (I was on my spring break at this point).
As part of one of my classes (Speech Communications), I was assigned to interview my home pastor over spring break on the topic of church communications (ironic, right??). My family was incredibly busy over my two-week spring break. I wrote the pastor this e-mail hoping to be able to ask him my interview questions via e-mail.
Dear Pastor John*, March 17, 2015 10:13 PM
I wanted to write you about two things. First, would you be willing to answer some questions for a school project I have? It’s for a group project in my speech class. My group choose to study and present on the topic of church communication. As a group we decided that we would all “interview” our home church pastor’s and ask them some specifics that they had seen in their experience to help us with the project. I would try to meet, but my break is almost over and it’s been crazy due to the play that Sister* and Sister* are in this weekend. Let me know! Thanks. 🙂
Also, would it be possible to get an electronic or paper copy of the letter sent out to the church at the end of last November regarding the Doe* family? I would really like to read it myself, and my parents no longer have their copy.
Thanks for your time,
Elizabeth Burger
He wrote me back within the hour, with this urgent response.
Elizabeth, March 17, 2015 11:02 PM
I’m happy to meet with you and, in fact, I ask you to please juggle things to meet with me while you’re still in town. I can make the time in the next 3 days to do that.
The reason I’d like so much to meet with you relates to what Sister* asked me last week on your behalf, and what I’ve learned about church communication. Things like this can go south quickly. I’m happy to meet and attempt to clear the air and hopefully avoid that outcome.
I respect you as an adult member of our church, I love you as a sister in Christ and I want to communicate with you as seamlessly, clearly, and honestly as possible.
As we don’t know each other that well, I would understand if you wanted another woman there. My wife, Elder 1’s Wife*, or Elder 2’s Wife* might be available to meet with us.
Let’s find a time to meet.
John* Last Name
During January, my counselor had recommended I read the book, Boundaries, by Dr. Henry Cloud and Dr. John Townsend. This letter was one of my first attempts to set my own boundaries with a person in authority.
March 18, 2015 1:17 PM
Thank you for your quick response. I am actually only interested in meeting to do the interview for my class at this time. For spring break I just need to talk about the class assignment and get your thoughts on specific questions that my group came up with.
I recognize the importance of talking about other things. My mom and I don’t have a lot of time, but if you wanted to share anything about the church I would be willing to listen. I do not have any specific questions for you at this time (regarding church things), but I would be happy to listen and not say or ask anything. So if you wanted to speak to anything you feel is an issue I would be okay listening, but I will not take questions or speak from my perspective right now. I am at an information gathering point right now. So, if you want to share your story of any of the church things I will gladly listen and take note. I would also like a copy of the letter that was sent to all of the church members. I was 19 at the time, and separate from my family (away at college). So I’d like a copy if you still have it anywhere on file, which should be easy enough. If you’ve changed anything in the letter you’re more than welcome to speak to me about that when we meet, but I still want to see it for myself.
That paragraph was way too long, haha. 😀 Basically, my mom can meet anytime tonight after 6:05pm. I realize this is not even in your regular office hours and it would take away time from your family. But that is the only time she is able to meet and I’d like to meet with you with her there (as you mentioned yourself, it would be good to have someone else around). We could meet for up to an hour of time if you’re available.
I’ll be checking my e-mail all throughout the day, so just let me know whenever you receive this and if you still want to meet and are available at the unusual time. Oh, mom said we can meet anywhere in Small Town* that you’d like to meet.
In summary (if the above is too long to read): I’d love to interview you tonight at 6:05 (or later) and after the interview if you want to talk about any Small Reformed Church* stuff that has happened since you’ve been here, you’re welcome to share your perspective and I will listen. I won’t talk about my perspective or answer questions, just listen. We could meet for up to an hour for the interview and anything else. I also want a copy of the letter sent to the church in November/December. If we don’t meet today (due to it being a crazy time or other circumstance) I would still appreciate a copy of the letter on Sunday, when I come to church. And thank you for answering Sister’s* e-mails.
Thank you for your time,
Elizabeth Burger
This was his response.
Elizabeth, March 18, 2015 2:43 PM
I will not be meeting with you tonight. I can’t agree to the terms you are setting out. Quite simply, it ignores our call to love one another and be in relationship.
I’m not sure where all of this is coming from, but your response seems to be extremely disrespectful and accusatory. I’m not sure what I’ve done to warrant that tone, and you say you are unwilling to speak to it. I’ve tried to invite you in to discuss whatever concerns you have adult to adult, but you are unwilling. If at a later point you would like to speak adult to adult, please let me know. Adults in loving Christian relationship have dialogue. They ask and answer questions. They disagree and discuss. When you’re ready for that, please let me know. I’d welcome it.
The best I can do at this point is get you a copy of the letter as you’ve requested that the session sent to the congregation. Send me your school address and I will be sure a copy is mailed to you. I’ll make sure your info is included in the next directory.
No matter what, I hope and pray that the Lord will bless you in every way.
John* Last Name
Wow.
Let’s just breathe for a second before we process this letter.
He told me that, “I respect you as an adult member of our church,” and then one e-mail letter, when I no longer met his requirements for how adults communicate, he was no longer willing to speak to me “adult to adult”. He also became hyper defensive and blamed me of being extremely disrespectful and accusatory. I’ll grant that my letter was poorly written, and quite wordy.
Sometimes adults also listen to other people (who says this is only for adults? Children are people too) and don’t give their opinions right then and there. Sometimes we give people space to share. Sometimes we dialogue. Sometimes we debate. Sometimes we sit silently together. There are many forms of “adult” (really, all people) communication. What do you think we did every Sunday at your church, pastor John??? You stand up front and talk to us, and we do not respond (verbally) at all. We sit quietly and usually listen and take notes.
I’m sorry that you did not think I was worth being in a loving relationship with (does that sound creepy to you at all?!) because I wasn’t ready to state my own thoughts on the church secrets. Well, now I am. More on this later, but I will now be seen as someone who is gossiping and destroying the “purity” of the church.
My question is this: If the church is actually pure, why do we hide in the shadows and the darkness? Why do we threaten people? Why do we force our own definitions of things onto them? Where is the love that is talked about so much?
Editorial Note: The following is reprinted with permission from Eleanor Skelton’s blog. It was originally published on December 14, 2014.
I’m shooting for the stars to hit the moon Mapping out a course for both my shoes, I’ve already practiced acting like there’s nothing to it. – Jellyrox, Rebel Tide
Some days I’m still lost.
Some days independence still knocks the breath out of me, and I’m reeling.
I’m split.
Over two years ago, I cracked, couldn’t live under the burdens anymore. And I left.
But I didn’t know how lonely I’d be, how long and cold winters could last outside in exile.
Try to hold the world together in my mind, Try to make it snow in mid-July, Try to prove my heart is worth the blood that’s pumping through it.
Some days I’m so cold. I warm my hands against favorite memories, hoping one day the frost will be over.
Looking for the light in the dark, the sunshine behind the shadow.
I try to keep my hopes above my doubts Try to keep my thoughts above my mouth I feel like a satellite just dying to leave my orbit…
I’m homesick. My friends noticed it reached unprecedented levels.
My friends have my back, my mentors believe in me. Somehow I’ll find the courage to keep walking, even if my steps are slow.
I take another shot at faking love Miss it by a mile and then some My insides are thirsty for whatever drink you’re pouring…
I’m tired all the time. The end of the year comes in like a tsunami, the semester drenches me. Maybe it’s senioritis, maybe the panic put a constant drain on my spirit.
I thought this biting wind would have moved on by now. Didn’t think the season would be so quiet a third time.
But they told me my freedom would have a price. Someday I’ll write about why.
And it takes you by surprise, like a rebel tide Like lightning from the sky has been searching for you And it splits you like a knife, the moment that it strikes When you realize that death was looking for you.
I count the times I nearly died.
When the ether of death filled my nostrils, when I believed the only option was to slaughter my dreams, to bury them. Then reborn desires crowd around me, remind me of all the times I’d left them for dead.
Telling me my longings are real, blowing on my numb hands so I don’t freeze over.
Praying like a child Christmas Eve Father, won’t you raise the son early? I ask an awful lot of both my knees just waiting for you.
Like ships in the night
