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Prov 18:14 A man’s spirit can sustain him during his illness, but who can bear a crushed spirit?

In the eight years since leaving the spiritually abusive group I was in, there is one thing I have never been asked by religious people: “What can we do?” Unfortunately, too often what I have seen is Christianity pulling away from those who are hurting, walking by on the other side of the road as they see us wounded in the ditch, so to speak. And as in the parable, it is often those who would be deemed ungodly or unChristian who get us out of the ditch, carry us to shelter, and bandage our wounds.

I’ve come to wonder if this is in part because no one in the church is trained in triage.

Have you ever hurt your foot, gone to the ER, and had the nurse start by taking your pulse and BP? There is a reason. Unless the patient is in immediate danger, it’s better to gently, slowly work toward the injury, rather than jumping right to it, watching for reactions and assessing the patient’s comfort while working. When a person is scared or nervous, it’s best to set the person at ease–jumping right in can make the situation worse, not better.

We’re not trained to do this unless we have some medical background. We may even pride ourselves on being direct. But that’s not always wisest. So what would spiritual triage look like for a wounded spirit? It would be different for each person.  But the list might include:

Listen.
Be there.
Invite me to be with you.
Ask if there’s anything you can do.
Look for little ways to help.
Don’t be shocked.
Don’t apologize for what happened and do NOT excuse it.
Don’t offer pat answers… maybe don’t offer any answers.
Ask good questions.
Be sincere.
Accept me.
Care.

What else might fit on a list like this? What do you wish people had done for you or would do, or what are you glad someone did to help you in your woundedness?

Continued from part 1

Some positive things I gleaned from ‘Created to be His Help Meet’ was learning to be thankful and cheerful. I was probably stuck on living opposite most of the time. So this convicted me and I really appreciated it because I knew she had to have a real point there. Besides, I remembered my mother was often discontent and how that affected my parents marriage which ended in divorce.

I learned to be more organized with meals and keep things simple. I learned to ask my husband what are some simple things I can do to keep the house tidy enough. What were his main peeves? This really helped me a lot not to be overwhelmed and feel like a failure.

Positive to negative: I learned to be extremely flexible with my whimsical husband who was also a bit of a ‘Command Man.’ Well, he had some blind spots. He seemed to love the change in me. But I made a big mistake. I told him I wanted to submit better and almost perfectly. By this I meant that even for things I had qualms about. I would defer to him for concerns of conscience regarding some gray areas. I got the idea that I shouldn’t trust myself. Now my husband was to be the spiritual leader regardless of spiritual maturity and that God would ultimately be correcting and convicting him.

Debi Pearl used a lot of scripture and I didn’t look into the ways she used them. I started realizing later that some of the verses she cited were used in a highly questionable way. During Bible reading I would come across verses of scripture that seemed like it could clash with some things she was teaching women.

Another problem is I would be really bewildered about the way she treated the women in her letters. It was downright knife twisting mean! I felt sorry for these women. I wanted to write a letter to Debi Pearl but I was just too busy with raising the children and besides, I was afraid I might receive a verbally abusive letter. So I shrugged figuring she was just over passionate and she was wrong to be so mean but I’d just chew the meat and spit out the bones. I still had it in my mind that this book was an answer to prayer, so Debi’s zeal, while I felt it was wrong, I thought it might be there for a reason. Maybe she’d seen too many marriages die just like my mother’s.

To be continued.

Marriage Trouble Part 1
Marriage Trouble Part 2
Marriage Trouble Part 3
Marriage Trouble Part 4
Marriage Trouble Part 5

I emailed the pastor of the church I’ve been attending:

I know Refuge is complimentarian, but what to what degree? On a continuum, there might be “men and women are fairly equal, but women don’t preach” on one side, and on the other might be “women should remain silent, submissive, barefoot, and pregnant” on the other. That’s a very broad spectrum. I know you don’t fall on either side, but where in the middle of that does Refuge fall?

Regarding Ephesians 5, could you please define ‘submission’ as you understand it?

Yes, I’ve known they are complementarian, but the subject had never come up and women are very involved in the church, so it was easy to ignore. His response was interesting:

Mary, those are great questions!

For complementarian, we do believe that men and women are created equal (Gen 1:26-28) but they are created different (Gen 2). We were given different roles, but we are all gifted in different and unique ways. In Genesis 3 we see the abuse of those roles, especially in the curse – “Your desire will be for your husband and he will rule over you.” Those are abuses of the way God designed us to be…working together and in harmony. So, how that all plays out in our world is tricky, but it is a posture of our hearts. So, we believe that the role of “elder” is reserved for men, not at the top of the food chain, but the bottom. To carry weight, to stand in the gates and protect the sheep from wolves. As elders, we believe that if we are doing our roles well, that every person in the church (male and female) ought to feel the freedom to serve in every other capacity. We don’t want to lord it over people, we want to serve and guide and protect.

As for “submission,” we are all called to submit, but it’s more invitational and not coercive. That means we see submission as a willful act, not a forced act…if that makes sense. In a marriage situation, that means that husband and wife work together, but the husband takes on the accountability to lead well and his wife helps him lead well – encouraging him when he leads well and opposing him (not in rebellion, but in encouragement) when he is doing things that are destructive to himself, to her or to their marriage. We see that playing out very similar in the role of elder.

Paul, in Ephesians 5 says that the church is to “submit” to one another. Wives are to submit – willfully trust and/or fight to trust her own husband (not all men), but also, that is balanced by the call to men to “give up their lives” for their wife. We do not believe that means women are to be silent, but are to be “helpers” as God called Eve in Genesis. I hope that makes sense. There are a lot of loaded words in there 🙂 so please ask for further clarity if needed.

The first sentence feels a bit condescending… and a lot fake. Women are “equal but different”… to a degree this might be OK. There are physical differences between men and women, and every person is different. I’d never realized that some translations say that the woman will desire to control her husband, and never thought of the verse as a warning before. It is these sorts of things that make me enjoy being there, even if I don’t agree with them on many things. That he adds that men are to be elders “to carry weight, to stand in the gates and protect the sheep from wolves…” is very triggering to me, since that was taught in the unhealthy group I came out of. Pastors in my experience are undershepherds who tend to run at the first sign of a wolf. And sometimes people need to be protected from them. And people aren’t sheep. The Lord is my shepherd….

Yes, there are a lot of loaded words there… and a number that are triggering to me. My background includes a LOT of misuse of the words and verses surrounding “submission”, “shepherd”, “accountability”, and even “protect”, to the hurt of those who had trusted the leaders using them.

I’m not sure I understand what you mean by this statement: ‘In Genesis 3 we see the abuse of those roles, especially in the curse – “Your desire will be for your husband and he will rule over you.”‘ I thought this was a statement of fact, a consequence of sin, rather than abuse of roles or part of the curse. (It’s my understanding that the ground was cursed and the serpent was cursed, but not Adam and Eve. Though sin did carry consequences, God didn’t curse them.) Or do you understand the passage more as the NLT puts it: “And you will desire to control your husband, but he will rule over you.” (I was a little surprised to find that as a translation, having understood it to mean her focus would be on her husband, on gaining his attention and affection, and that he would have the authority and sole decision making ability in the marriage. It wasn’t a verse I’d looked up or consider I might need to “untangle” from possibly poor teaching.) Could you explain?

Notice he doesn’t respond fully:

Yeah, I know those words are loaded and I would rather help redeem them than just dump them, but I am so very sorry that you’ve experienced the dark side of those words. That is, unfortunately, way too common.

The statement from Genesis 3, the relationship between Adam and Eve was also broken in the rebellion. In Genesis 2 we see them work together in harmony. Adam did not “rule over” her and Eve’s desire was not “for her husbands position.” They were secure, they worked together, they thrived in their relationship with God and with each other. I think we see the redemption of that in Ephesians 5. Part of that brokenness was each of them abusing or abandoning the way God designed them to work together. So, instead of working in harmony, their relationship became contentious. Adam (man) would be tempted to abuse his authority/headship, to use it for personal gain or self-protection. I think we have all (I hope) experienced some good practices of authority, but we usually don’t recognize it as authority. If you’ve ever had a good teacher or boss or someone who you knew would support you and you felt a sense of freedom with them. A good boss, for example, doesn’t threaten or govern with fear, but helps to push or encourage you to be your best. That’s good authority.

On the other side, Eve is tempted to “desire her husband’s position.” I think the temptation there kind of carries an “undermining” tone.

These discussions might be better over coffee or something so we can give a gentler tone to some of these words, because my fear is that you might hear these words wrong, and I really don’t want you to. I want you to feel confident and cared for and it sounds like you’ve experienced a lot of the opposite of that.

I am sorry for your past experiences. I really am. I appreciate you asking questions and I want you to feel a freedom to do that. We try as hard as we can to not have any “back rooms” or “hidden agendas” or anything that we hide up front. So consider that an invitation to keep asking and clarifying.

Hmmm… dump them? I’m not sure where he came up with that. The idea that Genesis was redeemed in Eph 5 is something I don’t understand. The sudden turn to “good” authority irritates me, too, mostly because I don’t see the point within the conversation unless it is to draw a parallel: there are good bosses and teachers so therefore there must be good authoritarian husbands. Hopefully I’m wrong, but to then move to Eve and parallel to a negative reinforces my distrust. Then comes the invitation to discuss in person… and again a condescending tone, followed by a statement out of the blue that they try not to have any hidden agendas. Once again, this raises red flags.

I responded, and have not received a response in nearly 24 hours:

Thanks for the responses. I don’t think most ‘authorities’ who support and encourage us to do our best see themselves as authorities. They lead, but they are just as apt to follow because they don’t see their leadership as a position and don’t view it with any permanence. Because of that, they are free from the fears and insecurities of authoritarians and freer still to do all things well, as are those around them. At least that’s been my observation.

I have learned good things [while at this church]… some things taught and some that drove me to study things out on my own or piqued my interest in a topic that I hadn’t already untangled. There is quite a bit that is believed that I don’t agree with, but I’m used to agreeing to disagree as long as I’m learning and don’t feel threatened or shunned for coming to different conclusions. My past experience is what it is. However, because of it, and because of what I learned from it, I am more cautious… and wiser, I hope.

I am available for coffee or whatever… But fair warning that any discussion of these things will not end or even slow my questions.

I may be too hard on him. He may have triggers from what I said as well. I’ve learned at this church, which is good. I’ve begun to want to study and pray. Those are good things. And there is no church in existence where I wouldn’t see red flags. What do you see? What do you think of my questions and his responses?

A Conversation With A Pastor, Part 2

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A few years ago I started really questioning my beliefs about wifely submission. I had practiced it for over a decade since I first became a Christian. I was in a marriage where I felt unequally yoked even though my husband was a professing Christian.

My brother led me to the Lord in my early twenties just after marrying my husband. He told me I needed to submit to my husband. It wasn’t easy so I would pray.

Two years later I got a book from my sister-in-law called ‘Created to be His Help Meet’ by Debi Pearl from No Greater Joy ministry. At first it was an answer to prayer. Our marriage had been hanging by a thread because of some things I needed to learn. The book did fix those things but it also mixed in some really unhealthy stuff into our marriage.

Along with this book I also had a DVD of Debbie Pearl’s husband, Michael Pearl, called ‘Marriage God’s Way‘ where he does a marriage seminar.

I really ate this stuff up because I thought it was an answer to prayer. I knew my marriage had been in trouble, and I really wanted to save it.

Marriage Trouble Part 1
Marriage Trouble Part 2
Marriage Trouble Part 3
Marriage Trouble Part 4
Marriage Trouble Part 5

Answer these 25 questions to find out if you are in a cult or high control group:

1) Do your studies or training in the group seem to be endless?

2) Did you have to give up things that you liked doing in order to be accepted into the group? (e.g. music, places you used to go, clothes, family life, celebrations, etc.)

3) Have you been encouraged to cut off good friendships or close family ties with people from outside of the group?

4) If you’ve belonged to the group all your life, are there things that you would have liked to have done but you couldn’t, as they were incompatible with the rules of the group?

5) Does belonging to the group involve dressing in a certain way and using a particular terminology?

6) Have you noticed a double moral standard in the group, where individuals pretend to be an ideal person in order to be accepted?

7) Do you have to project or maintain an outward appearance of happiness within the group, although deep down you are sad or dissatisfied?

8) Do you have to make more and more of an effort to continue being an active member of the group or are you requested to give more and more money?

9) Is criticism within the group or listening to critics forbidden and punished harshly?

10) Can you reject any instruction or order from the group, although publicly it is phrased as a “suggestion”?

11)  Can you question any teaching or doctrine of the group, although the criticism may be well founded and expressed respectfully?

12) Are those who reject or criticize the group or its leaders said to be rejecting God himself?

13) Are the leaders enormously relevant to the group members, and does their influence affect every aspect of the group members’ lives?

14) Are the leaders seen to be superior the rest of the members?

15) Do they claim to have divine authority or to have been appointed directly by God?

16) Do the leaders affirm that only they can communicate with God directly and receive his instructions for the group?

17) In the meetings of the group, are certain phrases or concepts reinforced periodically and topics repeated frequently?

18) Do expressions of love/brotherly affection within the group often seem fake, superficial or insincere?

19) Is it forbidden to date or marry someone who does not belong to the group?

20) As well as the communal meetings, is it obligatory to attend large conferences or other special events, and are members constantly kept very busy in activities related with the group?

21) Do you have the feeling that you’re never doing enough to reach the prize or recompense that the group promotes?

22)  Out of loyalty to the group, are there things that you must not say or secrets that you must not reveal?

23) Are the members of the group the only ones who can please God?

24) In general, do the group members feel superior to those who don’t belong to it?

25) Does the group teach that they are the only ones who will be saved, and that God will destroy or punish all those who don’t belong to it?

If the majority of your answers to these questions are “yes” (except 10 and 11) you are definitely involved in a sect/cult.

Tell us more about your story, please share in the comments below, or if you’re not comfortable writing publicly, consider joining the Spiritual Abuse online support group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/813830865371192/.   You are not alone.

Versión Original en Español:

Test para saber si estás en una secta

1) ¿Tus estudios o entrenamiento con el grupo parecen no tener fin?

2) ¿Has debido dejar cosas que te gustan a fin de ser aceptado en el grupo (música, sitios donde ibas, manera de vestir, vida familiar, celebraciones, etc.)?

3) ¿Has tenido que dejar buenas amistades para pertenecer al grupo?

4) En el caso de haber pertenecido toda tu vida al grupo ¿hay cosas que hubieras querido hacer pero que no puedes por ser incompatibles con las reglas del grupo?

5) ¿Pertenecer al grupo supone seguir una manera de vestir particular y usar un vocabulario diferente?

6) ¿Se observa una doble moral en el grupo, donde los individuos fingen ser una persona ideal para ser aceptados?

7) ¿Debes proyectar y fomentar una imagen de felicidad dentro del grupo aunque internamente estés triste o disconforme?

8) ¿Tienes que dar cada vez más dinero o hacer cada vez más esfuerzo para seguir siendo miembro activo del grupo?

9) ¿La crítica dentro del grupo o el hecho de escuchar a personas con opiniones contrarias está prohibida y se castiga desproporcionadamente?

10) ¿Se puede rechazar alguna directriz u ordenanza del grupo aunque públicamente se plantee como “sugerencia”?

11) ¿Se puede cuestionar alguna enseñanza o doctrina del grupo, aunque la crítica esté fundada y se plantee en términos respetuosos?

12) ¿Se pinta a los que rechazan/critican al grupo o a su(s) líder(es) como personas que en realidad rechazan a Dios?

13) ¿El líder(es)  es (son)  enormemente relevante(s) para los miembros del grupo, su influencia abarca cada aspecto de la vida de los miembros?

14) ¿El líder(es) forma(n) parte de una clase especial, o superior al común de los miembros?

15) ¿El líder(es) ostenta(n) una autoridad o nombramiento otorgado por Dios directamente?

16) ¿El líder(es) afirma(n) que sólo él(ellos) puede(n) comunicarse con Dios directamente y recibir Sus directrices para el grupo?

17) ¿En las reuniones del grupo se repiten frases o se refuerzan conceptos periódicamente, percibes que los temas se van repitiendo?

18) ¿Las expresiones de afecto/amor fraternal al interior del grupo son a menudo fingidas?

19) ¿Están prohibidas las relaciones de pareja con personas que no pertenezcan al grupo?

20) ¿Además de las reuniones comunes, debes asistir a eventos especiales y largas conferencias, se procura mantener a los miembros muy ocupados en las actividades del grupo?

21) ¿Hay una sensación de que nunca estás haciendo lo suficiente para alcanzar el premio o recompensa que el grupo promueve?

22) Por lealtad al grupo, ¿hay cosas que no debes decir o secretos que no puedes revelar?

23) ¿Sólo los miembros del grupo pueden agradar a Dios?

24) En general, ¿los miembros del grupo se sienten superiores al resto de las personas?

25) ¿Sólo los miembros del grupo se salvarán, Dios destruirá o castigará eternamente a todo aquél que no pertenezca al grupo?

Si la mayoría de tus respuestas son “Sí” (excepto 10 y 11), sin duda estás envuelto en una secta. Cuéntanos tu historia; no estás solo.