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Debbie McNulty’s Podcast Interview – Calvary Gospel Church Sex Abuse Survivor

I have written extensively about Debbie McNulty’s childhood sexual abuse by alleged perpetrator Steven J. Dahl while she was a member of Calvary Gospel Church, a United Pentecostal Church in Madison, Wisconsin, where John W. Grant was the pastor. (He now calls himself a bishop.) There are others from CGC who were allegedly abused by various men in the church. Below is a list of the articles that will give extensive details about this case:

A UPC Church Responds To Sexual Abuse
A Pastor Who Should Not Have Been Part 1
A Pastor Who Should Not Have Been Part 2
A Pastor Who Should Not Have Been Part 3
UPCI Ministers Embrace Alleged Pedophile Part 1
UPCI Ministers Embrace Alleged Pedophile Part 2
One Woman Remembers Steven Dahl’s UPCI Connection
A Day Of Reckoning For Calvary Gospel Church

In September 2019 a two hour podcast interview with Debbie was released by a group where normally “atheist and agnostic Ex-Christians share their stories of deconversion.” While she considers herself neo-pagan, they made an exception in Debbie’s case and included her story in one of their podcasts. There are many who have experienced spiritual abuse who have walked away from Christianity and with what Debbie endured, it is no surprise that she is not a Christian. We previously shared this interview on social media but I want to provide some additional information about what is covered so that potential listeners will have a better idea of what is included and so that some, who may not have two hours to listen, might be able to skip to a section that interests them.

In the first 55 minutes, Debbie shares about herself concerning her past and when she started questioning the teachings of her former church as well as the Bible. Some may not like the discussion about the Bible, but don’t allow that to stop you from hearing her story. Debbie had a childhood that she describes as “marinated in fear” and speaks about her complex PTSD after years of watching films like A Thief In The Night and hearing sermon after sermon about the rapture, end-times and people being left behind. She was very involved at Calvary Gospel Church, was a student in the church operated school that was held in their basement and was also a Bible quiz captain. (Bible quizzing is very popular in some United Pentecostal churches.) At home, things were often difficult and troublesome as they were poor and her parents divorced after her dad committed adultery. She later found herself in an abusive marriage while attending a Baptist church. She was in her early 20s when she was questioning the Bible and felt that the book of Genesis fell apart upon examination, which lead her to reject it all.

At about the 55 minute mark she begins speaking about her childhood sexual abuse and Steven Dahl, now of Oconto, Wisconsin and pastor of the Pentecostal Lighthouse Church, which meets in the old VFW building that was donated to the church. Debbie shows how she was groomed as an 11 year old and how he would complain to her about his marriage (he hadn’t been married long when Debbie’s abuse began) and how his wife wouldn’t have sex while fasting. During their first time together, he held her hand and then asked for a kiss, which she gave him on the nose. He allegedly responded that it wasn’t the type of kiss he wanted. Over time things escalated. Debbie felt responsible for the sexual abuse she endured when she was eleven and twelve years old. She shares that at twelve he unsuccessfully attempted to have intercourse with her.

Debbie was working with a 19-year-old at a church popcorn wagon when one day she suddenly blurted out what was happening. The teen asked questions of her and then told a minister and his wife from Calvary Gospel Church, whom she was living with, and they told her to tell Debbie that if she didn’t inform the pastor, that they would. Debbie had to make an appointment with pastor John W. Grant in order to tell him what was being done to her. Grant never spoke to her about it again after this meeting. A few days later is when Debbie received a phone call from Steven Dahl, saying he was leaving town and that it wasn’t her fault. At the next church service, she found out about him being caught in bed with his wife’s minor sister, Alice. They later married soon after Alice turned 18.

McNulty goes on to talk about the #churchtoo movement and mentioned that she hadn’t seen any United Pentecostal related stories. She started feeling that she had to tell her story, including the names of those involved and the church. At about the 1:22 mark she mentions my website and how she discovered she was not alone and that girls she had once babysat for had also been sexually abused. She became angry, sad and frustrated. All of this lead to her starting a private CGC support group on Facebook that started with about eight people and at the time of the interview had grown to 25 members.

At the 1:28 mark they speak about the Assembly bills in Wisconsin that hope to change the laws regarding child sexual abuse and remove the clergy privilege loophole that enables ministers to fail to report. Debbie spoke about how she and some others met with members of the Assembly and told them their stories of abuse. This meeting lead to a visit with the Madison police chief as well as to some investigative stories published by the Capital Times and written by Katelyn Ferral. On August 7, 2019, Debbie McNulty and another childhood sexual abuse survivor from Calvary Gospel Church, Rebecca Martin Byrd, both spoke at the press meeting that announced the Assembly bills. They were subsequently interviewed by some media outlets. At the 1:49 mark the interviewer is asking Debbie various questions and they speak about how Dahl had removed things from the Internet and how her husband confronted Dahl on his Facebook profile. She shared how Steven Dahl admits to adultery, but not that it allegedly happened due to sexually assaulting minors.

Debbie’s story is important and should be heard and known by others. Calvary Gospel Church has an alarming number of child sexual abuse survivors going back decades and these need to be investigated. No church should be permitted to enable, cover-up, turn a bind eye to, or fail to report instances of sexual abuse, especially those which happen to minor children. The United Pentecostal Church has many more instances of sexual abuse than their leaders and members realize or will admit to. While the organization is pretty small in North America, (Bernard stated in the January 2020 issue of Pentecostal Life that their North American churches only have an attendance of about 600,000 people and an estimated constituency of 800,000 as of August 2019.) these accounts of sexual abuse are just as alarming as those of the Catholic or Baptist churches.

Known as ‘The Rev,’ Steve Dahl runs The Rev Oconto Car Club Facebook Group (started September 28, 2021). He organizes Car N Tunes events in Wisconsin and at the annual Oconto Fly-In Car & Tractor Show (He also runs or helps run that Facebook Page, which started February 16, 2018), where he has served as emcee and DJ at the event for thirteen years. The next Fly-In date is September 21, 2024.

You will find a complete list of articles in this series by clicking here.

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Book Giveaway- Healing Together: A Guide to Supporting Sexual Abuse Survivors

As with all of our giveaways, this is only open to those with a USA mailing address.

That is what trauma does: it plunges one person underwater without warning, and as she fights to survive, those nearest to her try to bring her to safety- and it’s not easy. Experts warn people who are drowning to be as still as possible- so lifeguards can save them. When a crisis hits us, more often than not, our emotions spin out of control, and we need help as we thrash in the water, dipping below the surface. Your presence can keep us afloat, breathing and surviving the experience. – Anne Marie Miller

This is your chance to receive a new copy of Healing Together: A Guide to Supporting Sexual Abuse Survivors by Anne Marie Miller. It’s available to order from Amazon for $12.99 for the paperback or $1.99 for the Kindle version. It’s one of several new books that have been published this year, with Anne’s book being released just last week.

This giveaway is a drawing and not a first come, first served giveaway. To enter, just leave a comment to show you wish to be included. The drawing will close on Saturday, October 26 at 8pm (eastern time), after which I will draw the winner. You will then need to email me your mailing address if I do not already have it. Watch your spam email folder. There is absolutely no cost to enter. Don’t be alarmed if your comment does not immediately show as they require approval when you are commenting for the first time.

We always provide these at no charge to our readers.

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Book Giveaway- We Too: How the Church Can Respond Redemptively to the Sexual Abuse Crisis

As with all of our giveaways, this is only open to those with a USA mailing address.

But why does sexual abuse happen within our ecclesiastical walls? Shouldn’t the church that represents Jesus Christ- the One who loved children and cursed those who harmed them- do the very best job at protecting others from harm? Shouldn’t the church be a place a survivor could run in order to be protected, heard, and given restorative justice? Sadly, no. Because so often the church has jumped into bed with power and politics and has given preferential treatment to its reputation instead of the broken cries of survivors. – Mary DeMuth

This is your chance to receive a new copy of We Too: How the Church Can Respond Redemptively to the Sexual Abuse Crisis by Mary DeMuth. It’s available to order from Amazon for $11.51 for the paperback or $9.99 for the Kindle version. I mentioned this book in a blog about several new books that have been released this year.

Sexual predators are often charming. They get away with serial predation precisely because they’ve honed their interpersonal skills and practiced how to put people at ease. They know how to befriend and be kind to 98 percent of the population- and at the same time seek out the vulnerable. They tell the vulnerable 2 percent that no one would believe even if they did tell. Why? Because, as I mentioned above, they are typically not people you’d expect to be predatory. The 98 percent is part of their overall plan. In 98 percent of their lives, they’re upstanding, helpful, generous, funny, self-deprecating, ‘honest,’ and engaging. So if or when survivors bring something to light, very few believe them. Why? Because who wants to believe that your amazing friend is actually a wolf in sheep’s clothing. Surely not! Surely the #MeToo movement has gone crazy if it can even accuse this wonderful person of such a heinous crime. – Mary DeMuth

This giveaway is a drawing and not a first come, first served giveaway. To enter, just leave a comment to show you wish to be included. The drawing will close on Saturday, October 12 at 8pm (eastern time), after which I will draw the winner. You will then need to email me your mailing address if I do not already have it. There is absolutely no cost to enter. Don’t be alarmed if your comment does not immediately show as they require approval when you are commenting for the first time.

We always provide these at no charge to our readers.

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A Wisconsin Woman Receives An Anonymous Letter

Sometimes a victim of sexual abuse will be bribed or threatened somehow in order to keep them quiet. It happens for various reasons and doesn’t always come from the perpetrator. If the abuse is somehow related to a church, the pastor or others in leadership may want it kept quiet as they don’t want the church in the news. If the perpetrator is a minister, or a relative of a minister, great pressure can be placed upon the victim to remain silent. Some of those people retain their license or even gain it after assaulting someone because their crime was never reported as it ought to have been, such as in the case of Glen Uselmann and Don Martin, where UPCI District Superintendents endorsed them for their licenses. It is horrible enough when someone is sexually harmed but that harm is compounded when coercion or threats are involved to convince them to remain silent.

Sometimes those who expose these abuses get threatened or intimidated and that brings me to the reason for this article. There is a woman, who I will call Kate, who has experience in the Wisconsin District of the United Pentecostal Church. She has been sharing on her Facebook profile recent news reports which have partially exposed decades of unreported child sexual abuse at Calvary Gospel Church in Madison. Kate shared, “My intent on posting was to make people aware in their churches. Ask questions and do some digging regardless of what church leadership says. If churches are ‘families,’ families share heartaches as well as victories. Justice needs to be done. Not coverups.” She further shared that in response she received private messages and that some “brought up many instances of deviant behavior in a couple churches here in Wisconsin.”

This past week, on September 25, 2019, Kate received an anonymous typed letter from someone who mailed it in the Milwaukee area (or at least that is where the postmark originated). The envelope did not include her street address but was marked ‘general delivery’ and there was no return address. She believes the communication was either to intimidate her into not posting anymore about sexual abuse in the United Pentecostal Church, or to remind her of what happened many years ago with a relative. It was three short sentences as follows (with a name redacted as they were a minor at the time and his records were sealed). [screenshot of the letter]

[redacted] victims have not forgotten.
Think of those that have committed suicide because of the abuse.
[redacted] has received a lot of mercy,

I have been in contact with the woman who received this letter and, with their permission, I am sharing the background of what happened. I don’t like when people are threatened or intimidated to keep quiet and while whoever wrote this may or may not have intended for it to be taken that way, it is exactly how the receiver felt when they read it. Kate is coming forward publicly, though anonymously because this involves her son, in an effort to be open and to remove whatever power this person might think they have over her. I know it wasn’t easy for Kate to share about what happened and I appreciate her honesty and openness in sharing what was a painful and difficult time for everyone involved.

I believe it was a bullying tactic to remind me. What right did I have of posting coverups in the church? Look at you and the incident that happened years ago. . . .Whoever sent it wants to make it a comparison. Look at you… and you’re posting this content from Grant’s church.

Let me take you back to the late 1980s, where a sexual assault occurred in an ACE school restroom at a United Pentecostal Church in Fond Du Lac, Wisconsin. The assault referenced in the anonymous letter was regarding Kate’s son when he was 15 years old and a male victim about two years younger. The supervisor of the classroom would often leave the students unattended for long periods of time. Besides Kate’s son, it is alleged that this supervisor assaulted at least one student, though it was never reported to authorities. He was married at the time and had four young children.

Kate’s son was reported to police. He went through professional counseling for 1.5 years. It wasn’t covered up and his parents worked with the victim’s mother. Letters were written to the parents. Kate stated that the victim’s mother “never held any animosity toward us. We prayed together and worked through the whole ordeal. She is a good person. She had every right to be angry with us.” She went on to share, “We were totally broken when this happened. But we knew it all had to come out in order for everyone to heal. In no way do we condone this deviancy. We didn’t cover it up. And apologies were made- sincere heartfelt apologies. We called NO ONE A liar. Because curiosity in children is as old as time. Children have to learn to keep in their own space and never touch anyone or be touched inappropriately. Parental guidance is a must.” The records for Kate’s son were ordered sealed. The church school was later shut down.

Tragically, later as an adult, his victim committed suicide via an overdose. It may have been around ten years later. It isn’t really known whether this was related to the assault, something else, or a combination of things, but some people blamed Kate’s son. Though the letter mentions suicides in relation to the assault, this was the only one.

I pressed Kate for additional information as the letter referenced more than one victim as it was plural. She shared that her son also assaulted her niece and that this information was not publicly known. Kate stated, “My sister, her daughters and I remain close after all these years.” Two United Pentecostal pastors in Wisconsin know about this other assault and Kate wonders if the wife of one of them sent the anonymous letter. That pastor’s wife has a son, who is alleged to have assaulted more than one girl. To my knowledge, he was never reported, but later went on to receive a license in the UPCI, though he no longer is licensed.

The reports coming out of the Wisconsin District of the United Pentecostal Church are many and new ones keep coming to the surface. Though I have written much about Calvary Gospel Church in the past, as you can see from the two other churches mentioned, they aren’t the only UPCI church in Wisconsin that has these secrets, though they may be the worst. I imagine you will be reading new reports here, and elsewhere, in the future. Meanwhile, if this anonymous letter was meant to intimidate or threaten, this article should put an end to that thought. Kate is determined to continue speaking out about the various abuses in UPCI churches.

You will find a complete list of articles in this series by clicking here.

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