Category: unhealthy churches | Page 152

‘God Is Against You’ He Shouted!

“If you believe trinitarians are saved…God is against you.

“…If you deny a holiness message of separation from the world in dress and conduct…then God is against you.

“If you wear jewelry or condone it….God is against you.

“If you condone women cutting their hair or men growing long hair….God is against you.”

You can read more of this diatribe in the photo.

"God is against you!" shouts the Oneness Pentecostal man. — “God is against you!” shouts the Oneness Pentecostal man.

Such is what I stumbled across today as I glanced at an Apostolic discussion board. I am so thankful and glad to be away from this type of teaching.

He started his post by quoting two passages: Jeremiah 23:32 & Galatians 1:8. (This is the only part of the post not seen in the screenshot.) He used these to justify all his “God is against you” statements. What a message of love he shared! Can’t you just feel it? Don’t you want to dash out and visit his church? No wonder people in unhealthy churches develop a distorted view of God.

I am reminded of the believers in Corinth in New Testament times. Oh, did they have problems. They were carnal and divisive. Spiritual gifts were misused and there was sin among them, including sexual immorality. They were worldly and some were arrogant.

Yet Paul in his two letters to them never started shouting and naming a dozen or more ways in which God was against them. He tried to correct and teach them in love. It wasn’t about shaming them or tearing them down. He wanted to build them up and help them to see their place in the body of Christ.

To me, the harshest words in the New Testament were made by Jesus to the religious hypocrites. He told people to beware of the hypocrisy of the Pharisees. They were the separated ones; people who appeared to be religious and following God but inside they were dead. They wanted to stand apart from others in their manner of dress and where they sat. While they prayed and looked toward the heavens, they looked down upon the publican who knew their spiritual condition, and described to God the ways in which they were holier and better than him.

The author of that post should spend some time meditating about the passage immediately before the one he quoted in Jeremiah: “Behold, I am against the prophets,” declares the LORD, “who use their tongues and declare, ‘The Lord declares.’ (NASB)

Colossians 4:5 Live wisely among those who are not believers, and make the most of every opportunity. 6 Let your conversation be gracious and attractive so that you will have the right response for everyone. (NLT)

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A wayfaring man though a fool

Right after high school, I attended a UPC (United Pentecostal Church) Bible school. One lesson I remember was about the UPC oneness doctrine. S.G. Norris taught us to believe it by ‘revelation’; however, if we didn’t yet have the revelation, then we should just take it by faith until the revelation came because “obedience is better than sacrifice.”

Well, most of us were young, altruistic, very impressionable and looking for something to believe in. Many of our age-mates were buying into Hare Krishna, the Moonies, becoming a hippie, anything to give them the feeling of being important, on the cutting edge, far out . . . . . Believing the UPC ‘revelation’ was also a bit far out and cutting edge (after all this doctrine was only a couple of decades into existence at this time, Pentecost was not even old enough to be an antique yet) and it was also pretty safe –at least not likely to be physically harmful. So we gave ourselves passionately to this revelation or heresy depending on your viewpoint.

Years later, I graduated secular college. One lesson I remember from there was about logic, how you can fool all of the people some of the time, some of the people all of the time, but you just can’t fool ALL of the people ALL of the time. The problem with logic was that no matter how illogical something might be on the surface, our human brains seemed to be wired so that we could twist them into believing even the most ridiculous dogma –for those of you who took humanities, think Jar Boy.

So, how does one decide what to believe?? My UPC pastor at the time said he could ‘argue all sides of almost any issue’. Today his UPC church has ‘levels of salvation.’

My then teenage son lamented “why doesn’t God just give us a specific list of rules?” My answer at the time was that God wanted us to have the pleasure of working it out using his instruction book, the Bible. I still think that is not too bad of an answer.

So if the plan of salvation is so simple that “a wayfaring man, though a fool need not err therein” why do we have a gazillion books and thousands of religions to explain it?? If God knows the ending from the beginning, why did he start with the LAW?? Why didn’t he just start with Christ and be done with it and not put humanity through all this angst?? Why did He need the OT (Old Testament)??

My thoughts:

The plan of salvation is truly very simple –Christ died as an atonement for man and anyone who believes has hope of salvation. So why is that so hard? That is so hard because human beings want to somehow be in charge, in the know, important, make up the rules, be in charge of the rules, etc. We can take any number of very simple tasks and write a thousand page manual.

So why did God make us this way? He could have made us more simple, more obedient, less questioning, less thoughtful. Well, that is an easy one — we are made in the image of God and even we understand the value of love that is not coerced, not paid for, not robotic. So God made us complicated beings for His pleasure – hey, He’s God, I have no problem with that.

Now back to the original question – why didn’t he just give us Christ from the beginning and save us all the OT angst? Why did He need the OT?

He didn’t need the OT, we did!

Because we would not have understood the value of Christ without what preceded Him. We have to have the LAW, the failures, the successes, the hopes, the dreams, the prophets, the kings, the priest, the plans, the fanfare to even begin to comprehend the value of the simplicity of a salvation so simple that even a “wayfaring man, though a fool need not err therein”.

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We Find A Hometown

For two years my husband was mostly in military hospitals with only a few weekend passes and I was either in TLQs, staying with family or in rental homes where I could ‘work out’ the rent by fixing up the places. We had three small children and no paycheck because he wouldn’t agree to sign a release for ‘severance’ pay, even though they offered up to $200,000, which at that time was a small fortune. He was wise enough to know that in his condition that wouldn’t last long—I was ready to take the money and take our chances –he was much wiser than I. Most weeks, our only income was $40 the Red Cross would give us for food. I spent $19 on Christmas that year, buying used FP toys and cleaning them with bleach –the kids thought it was a great Christmas. 🙂

Finally, after two years, the USAF put him on TDRL and gave us two years of ‘back pay’ which was several thousand dollars. We moved to the town we lived in until recently because it was close to medical facilities and the climate and area was good for the disabled. We bought a house. Eventually, my husband was put on the permanent and totally disabled list and everything pretty much stabilized –still lots of medical junk going on even today, but life did become more normal and we had a nice income, free medical, benefits, etc.

After a long drama, we finally began to live again, albeit a very different life. Hiding his hip to foot brace under his pants and removable back brace under his shirt, few people were totally aware of my husband’s condition; the kids were always a bit surprised when someone said something about him being disabled, they truly never realized he was.

For several years we went to a pretty normal UPC (United Pentecostal Church) church. The pastor was originally from my home state of Ohio and for the most part wasn’t a bad guy. There were a few incidents, like the time I developed numerous boils. I had never had a boil in my life and these were huge painful ones that put me in the hospital. The pastor in all seriousness told me ‘some people’ felt boils were a sign of sin in one’s life. I am not kidding! We called him a ‘Job’s comforter’ hahaha. One of the doctors thought it might be something in the city water that I couldn’t tolerate and we bought a water system for the house. The boils disappeared and even though we later moved and didn’t have a water system, they never came back. We do drink bottled water and have a filter on the fridge though —just don’t ever want to go through that again!

There were upsets in the church and good friends left (we had no involvement and stayed) but things were never the same after –people became paranoid and things were always tense. We bought a nicer house in a better neighborhood and changed to a different, closer UPC church. We didn’t ask for a letter and had no issues so were pretty much accepted at the new church, but it really didn’t surprise me that we seemed to no longer exist for the friends left at the old church. We had found this to be an expected UPC experience. (Another person recently blogged about the loss of friendships.)

We stayed at this church for several years also; in both churches, we did outreach, taught Sunday School, were totally involved, but in the new church even after several years we had no real friends. Our kids were cute, bright, sweet, well behaved and popular first in their home school groups and then in public high school, winning lots of awards, being president of clubs like National Honor Society and Mu Alpha Theta, Beta Club, Key Club, etc., but inexplicably were never accepted at church. It wasn’t the standards, at this time, we followed them more closely than most of the church. It wasn’t their personalities; our house was always full of their friends, just not generally friends from church.

They were baptized and had the Holy Ghost from an early age. They went to the church camp each summer and participated in all the children’s and youth activities but were never accepted. In talking to other parents later, we found that very few kids in this large church felt ‘accepted’ and most are not in church today at all.

When my son started college on the other side of town, we moved and began attending a small UPC church that was frowned upon by churches in the area because of their lack of ‘standards’. By this time, our standards were slipping a bit, mostly because my daughter and I had done the ‘read the Bible through in a year’ program a couple of times and discovered that some of this stuff wasn’t in there. LOL

I went back to college when she did and we graduated together in 2000. My husband and I were fine with the little non-conventional church. It was kind of like a mission church with no formality and though we participated and helped out a lot, we didn’t really make any close friends, we really just didn’t have much in common with anyone, but I traveled a lot for work and we were fine with everything. The kids married and my son and his wife moved to another state to do church work at a college.

My daughter started a family and then when my grandson was two and there were no activities at the church for him, my daughter and son-in-law wanted to go to another UPC church with more kids and activities. Of course, we were sticking with the grand kids. The new church was known for very strict standards and my husband and I thought this was not a good idea, but decided to go ahead and give it a try. At first it was OK –the kids and grand kids were a great ‘catch’ for this church and though they hadn’t come with a letter of permission, it was obvious the pastor wanted to accept them (they were and are nice looking, bright, educated, successful, what’s not to like hahaha).

We knew the drill, so my husband and I just played nice and ‘attended’ when we were in town. For three years the kids tried to belong, but without changing considerably –they didn’t make the changes of no more trimming hair or pants or makeup for my daughter, no more shorts, movies, etc. for my son-in-law– so they were not allowed to participate or ‘use their talents’.

They went to ‘discipleship’ classes that the whole church was asked to attend. My husband and I passed on these –been there, done that. Finally, they were asked to ‘sign a contract‘ stating they would follow all these ‘holiness’ standards to be a ‘real’ member of this church. That was kind of the end for all of us. My husband and I weren’t even asked to sign, I think it was pretty obvious we weren’t interested.

The pastor told my husband that cutting my hair was a ‘heaven or hell’ issue. My macho husband told him that how I looked was not the business of any man but him! hahaha I really love this guy.

At this point we thought we would just trot right back to the little non-conventional church and my husband called the pastor and was assured they would be very happy to have us back. My husband told him to ‘think about it’ and then let us know; we just didn’t want to cause anyone any problems. A couple of days later this pastor called and rambled on, barely taking a breath about why we were not welcome back –I at first thought it was a recorded message because it didn’t sound real. We were having a family get together and it was hard to hear the message (my husband just brought the phone in and before we realized what was going on, it was over and the pastor had said goodbye and hung up). We all sat there kind of dumbfounded asking each other –what in the world was that all about????

My son-in-law called both pastors to try to get an answer. Both wanted he and my daughter-in-law to come back –one with definite standards requirements, the other kind of ‘who knows what’ but made it clear that neither church wanted me or my husband. OK, this was definitely new; we should have been upset or hurt or something but so far, we just feel kind of a relief that we don’t have to keep trying to make these churches work.

We have been through an awful lot in our lifetime; this blog has many blank spaces because our story would fill a book. We know who we are, we are happily married, we love God, we have great kids and adorable, brilliant, beautiful, sweet grand kids LOL. We have good friends, just mostly not in UPC. I have a great job and my husband loves traveling with me. We also have an adopted 20 year old daughter that I haven’t even discussed here –she would rotate between our house and my bio kids houses and is a happy, well adjusted, very sweet kid.

Life is good. Eventually we will find a group of people in a church we can attend and enjoy. No hurry.

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Shaking Foundations: The Start of Questions

Someone in an unhealthy church may ask a question like this:

Why did God find me in a UPC church if the teachings are wrong? What is so wrong now that was not wrong then? Why after all of these years do I have questions that rock the foundation of everything I have been taught and believe?

In responding, I could counter with, did God actually find you in a United Pentecostal Church? God was drawing you to Himself well before you stepped foot in a church. The type of church doesn’t matter. Where you were when you opened your heart to God doesn’t matter. It really has no bearing on you and God as our walk is a one-on-one relationship with Him. God could have just as easily met with you in a vacant field or a hot desert. See what I mean?

When we first come to God, we are overjoyed. We want to do anything and everything. We are not looking for things that may be wrong. We may have little to no knowledge of the Bible to know how to discern between true and false teachings. We aren’t expecting to be taught things which are not true.

So, did your church change? Was it different in the beginning? My guess is no. But your perception of it has changed. You are no longer in the beginning happy stages, ready to do anything without question that ones in leadership ask. You’ve now matured. You’ve gained knowledge. You think more critically.

When someone in an unhealthy church starts to question teachings, no matter what they may be, it often does feel like their foundation is being shaken- and in reality, it is. Yet if your foundation is based upon man’s imaginings, then you need it to be shaken, even though it doesn’t feel very good and can be quite scary.

I have found through my own experience, as well as listening to a great many people who have left the UPC or other Oneness Apostolic churches, that God often uses some incident to cause the person to start to look objectively into a matter. What that something is varies greatly. It may or may not have anything directly to do with the teachings themselves.

For me, it started when I helped at the church run daycare for the second time. Events that happened over several months helped cause me to feel that if things didn’t change, I’d be leaving the church.

I ended up voluntarily resigning my teaching position at the end of the summer program and went away for a few weeks and spent some time with UPC friends in the ministry, who knew how things could be at the church. (It has often helped me to go away somewhere while thinking things over.)

When I returned, I heard all kinds of things about a tape recording that the pastor played in a Thursday evening service. It was a Christian radio broadcast on spiritual abuse. The two guests were former members of the church. They didn’t mention the church name or any person in the church. His stated reason for playing it was so members could see what was being said about the church.

I asked to borrow the tape and found that my reaction was not what I had seen in others. I saw some truth to what they shared, though I didn’t agree with everything. Sometimes you have to have things happen directly to you in order to wake up.

I made a copy of the tape and took another trip to a couple who had left the church previously. While they listened to the tape, it was obvious the whole thing was difficult for me. It was painful to start realizing abuses that had taken place in my church and that the pastor played a part in some of it. If you were present, you would have found me pacing back and forth while they sat and listened, making occasional comments.

After my return home, I met with one of the daughters of the pastor and her husband, who had also left. That was an eye opener, too. PKs tend to see and hear many things.

From there I started to attend services less and also looked into the uncut hair issue for women. It wasn’t very long before I knew I could no longer remain. It got to a place where it didn’t even feel like my church anymore. After being a loyal member for just under 13 years, that was an odd feeling, indeed.

For me, my start into seriously questioning things was working in the daycare. I saw people do things against state rules. I was told by the pastor to lie if anyone from the state came when his daughter wasn’t there. (There was supposed to be a certain person there, with college credits, while we were open.) I got a first hand experience of what some others had gone through before me.

It had nothing to do with the church teachings at first. I believe God used a series of incidents to start to remove me from an unhealthy church environment and erroneous teachings.

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Beginning Our Work For God

Ok, here goes our United Pentecostal Church story.

In the beginning, newly out of Bible school and desperately wanting to work for God, we had several ‘offers’ to come help churches. We accepted one in Ohio but my husbands District Super uncle convinced us to come to another state and work the campground that summer–he would ‘make it worth our while’. Sounded like fun–but it wasn’t.

I was six months married and pregnant but didn’t know it. I was exhausted but the uncle demanded I get up each morning and help clean and prepare the campground; I literally dragged myself through the tasks assigned, becoming more and more exhausted, but still not knowing it was because I was pregnant and should be resting.

I worked blisters on my hands, had a sunburn, and at one point was stung multiple times by a nest of ‘mud dauber’ wasps flying up my skirt while cleaning a bathroom. After a month, I miscarried on the 4th of July. I was left alone in a strange state, strange city, strange hospital, to watch the fireworks in tears from my hospital bed. My very young inexperienced husband was still ‘working the camp’ as demanded by his uncle.

When I got back to the camp, I couldn’t call my parents because the uncle had a block on his phone (this was before cell phones). It was at least a week before I could let my mother know and by then I was very sick. Our conversation was in front of the uncle and aunt so I was very limited on what I felt comfortable saying and my parents had no idea what was really going on.

I would go sit in a very hot car with all the windows up trying to get warm (in this state small children and dogs died when forgotten in locked up cars) but nothing made me warm. The uncle’s wife demanded I do my husband’s laundry, so I literally dragged myself to the laundry room.

She washed uncle’s white shirts after I finished and they came out with ink on them. She went into a rage and blamed me even though NONE of my husband’s clothing had any ink on it. She demanded I ‘clean’ the washer and dryer of all the ink. I waited until everyone was gone and then actually crawled to the laundry and cleaned the machines.

I felt very alone and desperate. I ended up back in the hospital with an infection and finally got some medication to begin healing. When camp ended, I still wasn’t completely well and we got an offer from a church a few hours away to come help.

The uncle gave us $100.00 for our summer at camp and ‘very generously’ another $100.00 that he said was ‘under the table’, oh and a bag of the disgusting yellow rice we had been eating all summer, along with a pound of butter.

We couldn’t leave fast enough! (an aside) The uncle had adorable twin two year old daughters –he played teasingly with them until he was tired of it and then if they didn’t stop immediately, he beat them with a belt. I cried as much as they did. Neither is in church today. He is dead. The aunt is raising one of their sons; I don’t think they ever married or had other children.

So, the new town was really awesome. The pastor seemed like a nice guy. The pastor’s wife was weird –like the little girl with the curl, when she was nice she was very nice and when she was bad she was TERRIBLE. I was still sick, tired and thin.

They helped us find a roach infested apartment above a garage for around $40.00 a month. I had NO experience with roaches or palmetto bugs and nightly sprayed a ring of bug killer around our bed, blessedly unaware that these things could fly. There was no air conditioning or heat. We had a fan in summer and bought a kerosene heater when winter came.

We both found jobs. Our apartment was painted black and dark purple by the former hippie inhabitants, so the pastor’s wife loaned us money to buy paint to repaint it. We were expected to and did pay 10% tithes and 5% offerings.

I had a car accident and totaled our car. The pastor convinced us that the rapture would happen very soon, so we should buy a van to do church work (we would never have to pay it all off because of the rapture. Oh how young and ridiculously dumb we were.

We worked in the church preparing it and the Sunday school activities and canvassing for children to bring to Sunday school every Saturday pretty much all day, but we were happily married newlyweds and it really was fun a lot of the time. We picked up people for church every church service and a host of kids on Sunday mornings.

The church people seemed to like us a lot and were kind, inviting us to dinner or to go out to eat. We worked really hard and at one time actually had 39 kids in our VW van on a Sunday morning!

The pastor’s wife varied between loving the church people and chasing them off with her sharp tongue. Looking back, I am pretty sure she was manic/depressive but that was before this was such a well known condition. After a couple of years, she had really worn us down and we decided to talk to the pastor; she came in at the end of the talk, and realizing it was likely about her, she attacked. She told me I had a mental problem and needed ‘help’.

I was again devastated and my now getting older and wiser husband decided it might be time to move on. We bought a tiny camper trailer (you could almost touch all walls when standing in the middle of it hahaha). We lived in it while we saved enough money to leave –of course still religiously paying our 15% to the church each week and continuing to donate all our free time.

A lot more happened at this church but I would have to write a book to cover it all. The Sunday before we left, the pastor’s wife organized a ‘going away’ party. Our gift was a painting of the Bible with Acts 2:38 highlighted, painted by an old Oneness preacher, Bro. Hudson I think, in the congregation. We eventually donated it to a Oneness church. It was only 1973 and we had no idea what we would eventually live through 🙂 ; our ideals and altruistic desires were still firmly in place, as they would be for years to come.

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