A response to a response on 55 Things Christian Women Hear

One pastor wrote in response to the Twitter feed #55thingsonlychristianwomenhear. He emphasized a handful of tweets that said women were valued, and then went into a complaint against tweets that Christian women had heard about being in leadership or wearing certain clothes. He apparently didn’t read the feed itself, which included things like:

“‘The ultimate healing would be if you two were married’– said by the mom of my rapist.”
*meeting my friend’s baby* “Don’t worry this will happen for you soon.”
“It’s not your job to read the bible to our children. Their spiritual education is my job said the man.”
“If you had to pick, you’d rather follow the call of God on your life than get MARRIED? I don’t understand!”
“I recently got my PhD, after congratulations everyone talks about me needing to get a husband.”
“The nerve of women to complain. And, PUBLICLY! A woman’s job is to keep the peace, at her own expense.”
“‘The definition of biblical womanhood is marriage & motherhood.’ So single/childless women are unbiblical?”
“When you heard many sermons on how women submit to husbands but 0 on how husbands lay down their life for wife.”
“I know we’ve been friends 20 yrs & the divorce wasn’t your fault but I can’t have a divorcee near my husband.”
“Ambition isn’t godly.”
“Did you come to seminary to find a husband?”
“You need to let a man provide for you.” Me: “I’m single, so if I did that I wouldn’t eat…”
“Said to male/female youth: ‘Every woman has an inherent desire for children. If she doesn’t, something’s wrong.'”
“The church: ‘The dental hygienist deserved to be fired” (boss lusted).’
“You must be mistaken! Your hubby is a GOOD Christian, You can’t be a battered wife!”
“Well, no, he shouldn’t have done that, but as his wife you have to submit.”

The above are just a sampling. They were not addressed in the response.

Now, as for what was, there was a lot on clothes and dressing modestly. It happens that I’ve known this man. It happens that he’s known me ever since I left an organization that taught women should only wear dresses or skirts that come at least 6″ below the knee, should always wear sleeves below the elbow, should not let their collarbones show. He is very familiar with this group… and disagrees with them. Yet what he says in this response about clothes sounds so like them. And then he says: “How a man views a woman who is dressed immodestly is different than the way a woman perceives it.”

Wait. Do all men view women who dress immodestly “differently?” What is immodest? Isn’t what is considered modest at least partly cultural? (Consider what some tribal people in Africa consider modest compared to what is modest in America, or what is considered modest on a beach compared to what is considered modest in an office.) And do men really think “differently” about women who breach whatever their definition of modesty is? In my experience, they do only or mainly if they are told they should or if it is often called to their attention.

He ends with this statement:
“Perhaps you need to learn to “count it all joy, my brothers [and sisters], when you meet trials of various kinds” (James 1:2). And you need to do that first before taking your grievances to Facebook or Twitter. Slandering the church is demonic. Watch out that you’re not like the wicked servant who beats his fellow servants in Matthew 24:45-51. God will cut you into pieces and throw you out with the hypocrites.”

Count it all joy. Unless he is saying that “trials” are dressing “modestly” and staying out of leadership in the church, he has read some of the other tweets. Count it all joy. When your parents tell you they wish you’d marry your rapist? When you are told that you should go to a Beth Moore study and do a craft while the men discuss theology? When you’re told a man’s just being a man when he stalks you at church, so deal with it? When you’re told that you should stop wanting to be married but should get married and, if you’re single, that your life is on hold because women’s highest calling is to marry and have kids? Hmm…

Our grievances have been taken to churches. For years. And they have been ignored, in large part, in too many churches. But now he warns us not to take these grievances to Facebook or Twitter. Don’t discuss them. Don’t bring them into the open. “Slandering the church is demonic.” Where is that in the Bible? Who is beating his fellow servants? There is NOTHING wrong with saying that something being ignored by the church shouldn’t be.

In that way, how is 55 Things so much different than Luther’s 95 Theses? Yes, he responded to different things. But he called out the church for teachings that were harmful to people and were unscriptural. Yes, the man who wrote the response would say that some of the responses were scriptural. But surely not all. Surely not the ones I listed. And as for “God [cutting] you into pieces”… that is not in Matthew 25. I have not seen that in the Bible at all, though I have heard similar fear tactics used to silence those who would stand for right. I’ll take my chances. I’ll stand.

As Kelly Ladd Bishop said in her blog post: “The hashtag took some criticism from Christians who claim that it reflects poorly on the church and will turn people away. But that’s no different than covering up abuse because it reflects poorly on the abuser. These quotes are the reality for so many women in the church. So if it is reflecting accurately and turning people away, then perhaps it’s time for the church to listen to what the women are saying and do better.”

Sunday Night Fright Night

The stage was set, the tones were hushed, – weeping and moaning could be heard – and the sweat was pouring amid the hot summer breeze blowing through the open windows.  We were reaching the climax of another “evangelistic” Sunday night service at my United Pentecostal Church.  The building was small and inadequate for the crowds, as was the air conditioning system.  Our pastor’s preaching style was starting slowly with a scripture, a title, and then launching into various Old Testament stories and ending with stories of car wrecks, God’s impending judgement on women who didn’t follow the rules, and those waiting too late to “pray back through.”

He was a very large, imposing man and he could be very dramatic in his sermons; visually displaying how the devil had his way with Job, as he scraped his sores.  He acted out the stories of Rizpah, shooing away the vultures from the seven slaughtered sons of Saul, staggering back as poor Naomi who would have to be called Mara (meaning bitter) because she went out full and came back empty; no husband, no children, and of course pitiful blind Samson, who didn’t even know when God’s spirit left him. (This thought would haunt me for the rest of my life.)

All of these sermons were meant to create a sense of urgency in the audience to come rushing to the altar benches in front of the pews at the end of the service to plead with God for mercy one more time.  This scene was repeated each Sunday night in my United Pentecostal Church.  The purpose this served in my life was to make me very fearful of God and not the kind of fear the Bible describes.  As a young girl, the first concepts taught to me about God were that of someone who would only love me if I was good enough.  If not, He would yank the Spirit right out of me or maybe like Samson it would drift out and I wouldn’t even know it.  The long term effect of living with this kind of fear in my life is that I have always taken on the guilt of everything.  Every circumstance that comes in to my life causes me to question “is it my fault?”  I even dream up circumstances to blame myself for.  And since our emotions can’t think, they tend to stick with you through life despite the facts that you know.

Fear and guilt are used as a means of gaining control over the members of these churches.  You see, these are not the meek and mild ministers you see in movies, they are in total control.  In fact, the churches in the area I am in are not even called by their name but by Brother So and So’s church; whoever the pastor is at the time.  You are not to question his authority.  These ministers make up strict behavioral rules for you to obey; how to dress and how to comb your hair.  If you are going to be allowed to participate you must be following the rules.

Those who don’t follow the rules are disapproved of and seen as the dreaded “worldly.”  We were told what we could listen to, where we could go, and what we could do.  Fear is used to keep people from leaving the church; you are told there is no alternative, if you leave here you will lose your salvation.  It was always stressed that your “church family” is really closer to you than your real family.  Why would you ever leave?

But, is this God’s approach to drawing people to Himself?  If God’s highest desire is for man’s love and obedience, is it won based on fear of punishment?  The answer is no.  God’s approach to win man’s love and obedience is love.

“…not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentance?”   Romans 2:4b NKJV

“For God so loved the world…John 3:16a NKJV

“But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.”   Ephesians 2:4-7 NKJV

For the love of Christ compels us…”   II Corinthians 5: 14a NKJV

How Long Is Your Skirt? (Er, How Holy Are You?) Pt. 2

In response to my last blog, the SpiritualAbuse.org Facebook Page received a large number of comments. Thanks to everyone who viewed the blog and left a comment. Some were nice, some disagreed with my view, but were still respectful, and some were a bit nasty.

I don’t see the value of rude behavior in an attempt to prove tradition as biblical truth, but some go for it, anyway. Regardless of one’s position on the issue, one can disqualify his point by being a nasty person. Please remember that when commenting on Facebook.

Moving forward…

On the Facebook Page, one lady posted this picture as a response to my last blog post:

It is supposed to illustrate the transforming effect of a woman who reads the Bible. Do you notice how the picture only examines the outside dress of the woman? It doesn’t make one mention of the heart! I state this because outside appearance is how too many people define modesty and holiness. This picture, used in Apostolic circles, reinforces that false notion. (BTW: There is no scripture posted with the picture that states a woman should always wear skirts. )

Reading and applying the Bible can transform an individual’s life. But, if you end up in a church telling you how to dress, then you’ve walked into something that is taking advantage of the transforming power of Grace. This is something cults do. It’s common for cultic teaching to take an ounce of truth, and then spin it into a pound of errors.

This picture does exactly that; it deals in extremes. If the Holy Spirit actually leads a woman to wear a dress, that is fine, but that still does not make it a biblical truth for all other women. In that instance, it is a personal conviction – nothing more. The Spirit leading a person in this direction does not automatically make it a universal rule for all women to follow.

When a personal conviction is taught in such a way that everyone must submit to it, this becomes an instance in which a truth has been twisted into a lie.

If you are in a culture which teaches that modesty for women IS wearing skirts, it’s more probable that peer pressure is directing you to do likewise, not the Holy Spirit.

Like I mentioned on my last blog post, this teaching is from man. It’s a man-made tradition. There is no scripture that states a woman has to wear skirts to be modest.

In one response, a lady questioned if all United Pentecostal churches taught this doctrine. I replied that I was a licensed preacher in the UPCI for several years. I traveled, I evangelized, and I got to know a lot of pastors in that organization. I will agree with you when you say that “not all apostolic churches make their members wear skirts,” but, I still stand by the fact that the majority teaches and believes it as being “truth.”

Here’s why – when an individual wants to become a licensed preacher in the UPCI, he or she has to sign a document which basically says one has to teach and believe in that doctrine. If one does not sign the document, a license will not be received.

Personally, I have known some ministers who signed the document, yet didn’t push the ‘standards’ issue. I also know about the kind of pressure and abuse they have received from the majority within the organization. Then, there is also the fact that they signed, and agreed, that they WOULD teach that doctrine. If you don’t agree to teach it, you won’t receive the license.

This is one reason why I gave up my license. I couldn’t lie. I could not tell them that I would teach their doctrines, and then turn around and teach something else.

The organizational teaching is that women have to wear skirts. They say it’s the “truth,” and in reality, it isn’t.

The Bible does teach to dress modestly. I believe that goes for both men and women. I also believe that some have taken advantage of that teaching, and have defined it as something it’s not.

Because of this post, I’ve asked people to give me one scripture that says a woman has to wear a dress. Instead of getting a scripture, I received in response, a lot of hate, mockery, and side-stepping of the question. Why did I get that? Because the teaching is not biblical—and a lot of people are enslaved to the lie.

Jewelry Questions

The teaching on jewelry can vary from church to church or area to area in some religious organizations. In my former church, wedding rings were fine, but in some of our other churches they taught you’d go to hell if you wore one. My church didn’t teach against things like tie tacks or cuff links, though some do, and a few members of our church got caught up in that and left. Jewelry that was not OK where I attended were necklaces, earrings, bracelets, and such.

What did your church allow or disallow? Were you taught you’d be lost should you wear any jewelry? Were you shunned or considered backslid? I vividly recall one United Pentecostal Church General Conference where a minister got up and spoke against the evils of wearing a wedding ring. James Kilgore, then the assistant superintendent, went up afterward and let it be known that everyone did not believe the same on that issue.

In the Bible, wearing jewelry is not mentioned as being sinful. Ezekiel 16, in speaking of Jerusalem, God shares how he decked her with gold and silver bracelets, neck chains, forehead jewels, and earrings. In Exodus 11 God instructs Moses to tell the people to  ‘borrow’ jewels of silver and gold from the Egyptians. They did this when they left the country and does anyone really think that no one wore any? Later in Exodus 35, it shows the people giving bracelets, earrings, rings and other jewelry to be used toward building the tabernacle. If God doesn’t want believers to wear jewelry, wouldn’t God be sending very mixed signals by these examples? Stop and really think this teaching through.

What scriptures did you hear used to support the teaching that Christians are not supposed to wear jewelry? Did you later see they were taken out of context? And if these standards are really God’s rules, why do they change from church to church or area to area?

If God has not commanded believers to refrain from wearing jewelry, we need not follow man’s teachings on the subject. It doesn’t matter how many ministers and pastors shout it from a pulpit, it doesn’t change the truth of what is seen in our Bibles.

How Long Is Your Skirt? (Er, How Holy Are You?)

I can assume this picture was made to be comical…but with what many in the “holiness/apostolic” movement teach, it really isn’t.

It’s even declared as a heaven and hell issue.

That’s scary. That is VERY scary.

Not because it’s true…it isn’t. It’s scary because men, in His Name, declare it as truth.

Teachings like that are abusive towards women. It’s emotionally abusive. It’s also spiritually abusive. It tells women that they can only be fully accepted by both the church, and by God, if they dress a certain way.

I’ll even go a step further and say that such teaching is abusive to men, also. It teaches them an improper way to look at a woman. It teaches them an erroneous way to look at God. A man under this teaching will influentially see a woman as holy – if she wears the proper outfit.

Again, I’m thankful to be free from the influence and massive pressure that declares “Apostolic Identity” over striving to be a simple and modest Christian. (A follower of Christ.) With that, I am going to lay my question out as plain as I can.

Is Holiness determined by skirt length?

Is Holiness for a woman determined by wearing a skirt?

If so, where did Jesus teach this? Where is it in the Gospels? Or our Bible?

It’s not in there. Teachings like this are not biblical, it is denominational tradition. It’s man’s tradition because it’s a teaching that originated from man. Nothing more. If it’s taught as truth, or even a heaven and hell issue, then realize it is a lie.

I’m sure many under the holiness/apostolic traditions will attempt to avoid the simple phrasing I used, but realize that no matter how they word it, that is the basics of what they teach.

Doctrines like this, and the passion put into declaring it as a universal truth for women – it’s crazy. It’s legalistic. It’s definitely NOT biblical.

Not to mention, it’s wrong.

How Long Is Your Skirt? (Er, How Holy Are You?) Pt. 2

Click to access the login or register cheese
YouTube
YouTube
Set Youtube Channel ID
x  Powerful Protection for WordPress, from Shield Security
This Site Is Protected By
ShieldPRO