Category: salvation | Page 2 | Spiritual Abuse Blogs

If You Were To Die Tonight

If you were to die tonight, where would you spend eternity?

I saw this again the other day and I set it aside as I wanted to write about it. I grow so weary with seeing things like this. Unhealthy churches distort the Gospel and they change people’s focus from God to other things. Relationship with God is replaced with performance based religion. The message of grace is twisted and people develop warped views of God due to the faulty teachings and practices. It is about escaping hell. It becomes about bringing people to their church and not necessarily into a relationship with God. Let me give an example of what I believe to be this faulty evangelism focus.

Tim Downs is an Apostolic evangelist and pastor. His stated vision is to train Apostolics (Oneness Pentecostals) how to win souls and reach the lost. Some years back he released a poorly made DVD titled, Do You Want To Go To Heaven Or Hell (screenshot), which was touted as a ‘soul winning’ method. (The first link takes you to the film on YouTube and the second to a print out of his method.)

His approach involves asking people if they want to go to heaven or hell and then he quickly transports them to a church, gets them water baptized and attempts to pray them through to tongues. The approach seems to be to avoid hell and because of this, I view it as motivated through fear. People who come to a church or God that way often do not last and understandably so. Besides not becoming rooted, they are not hearing about the love of God and how much he cares for them. Instead, it becomes about fleeing eternal torment and is a seemingly ‘quick fix’ to that scenario.

Take note the scripted discussion in the video. Do you notice the wrong emphasis? How does this compare to what we see in the New Testament, of when believers were sharing the Gospel to someone who didn’t know? Here it is all about avoiding hell and being baptized ‘the right way.’ This causes people to believe they need to follow a few steps and they are assured of going to heaven. It’s about what THEY must do to be saved. Hey- that’s what the initial focus and hurry is all about- going to heaven or going to hell. It isn’t about coming to know Jesus.

The method used by Downs, and similar ones by others, misses what becoming a believer is about. It isn’t about going to heaven or hell. Church today is so messed up that it has strayed so far from early Christian practices that in many ways it bears little resemblance.

If you are using this misguided focus to reach people, please stop to take a long, hard look at what you see in the New Testament. Do you recall Peter, Phillip, John, Paul or any of the others ask people something like “If you were to die tonight, where would you spend eternity?” or “Do you want to go to heaven or hell?” Even Jesus himself never went around asking these questions. Did they focus on getting people baptized ‘the right way’ or was it about having a new life with Jesus? Was it about numbers being added to a church’s or evangelist’s statistics, or was it about how God loves us and the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus and what that means to them?

While such methods may produce numbers which may seem impressive without further investigation, what are the long term results? Are people doing what is told them simply to have a false assurance that they will go to heaven? Like with the scare tactic of the rapture messages, how many go for a short time and then leave or not even return at all after their initial encounter? Let’s use Downs’ own statistics as some food for thought.

On his evangelism website, Downs writes that in 2011 he left evangelizing to pastor a church in Georgia. It is stated, “In the first year they baptized over 712 people in the name of Jesus…” Yet when we go to the church website, we find that “They have seen incredible growth since opening the church on May 1, 2011 with having an attendance of 200-300 on a regular basis.” What happened to those several hundred missing people from the first year and who knows how many in the years thereafter? Did they ever come to know Jesus or have a one on one relationship with him? Or was it nothing more than avoiding hell and wanting to go to heaven? These are things we should seriously ponder.

The question should never be “If you were to die tonight, where would you spend eternity?” Rather, the focus should be on the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus and believing and placing faith in him. It should be about God’s love for us and on having a personal relationship with God. It isn’t about heaven or hell, but about knowing and following our Creator.

[2023 Edit: Since this was written in April 2017, Downs and his wife Holly divorced and in July 2019, he married his daughter-in-law, Stephanie, whom his son had married in 2012. He is pastor of Hope Center in Michigan City, Indiana. It is touted as a “a non-denominational church,” but is Oneness Pentecostal.]

Focus on Church or Jesus?

We often speak of the difference between following religion and having a relationship with God. Many of us, while in the United Pentecostal Church or similar churches, ended up getting caught up in religion and our focus shifted.

Below is a quote from an article written in The Reporter News (a local weekly paper near the Houston area) on March 15, 2006. A minister by the name of Casey Jones is the author.

…if I had tried to convince some*one to become a Christian, it would have been a matter of my trying to get them to agree with me, rather than wishing for them to meet and experience God.

The above quote says a great deal. Think about it for a bit. How many focus on getting people to their church or at least their organization? How many focus on getting the person into the baptismal tank or to have them speak in tongues?

Compare these things with wanting the person to learn of and have a personal relationship with God. See the enormous difference? Perhaps you have been guilty of the same? I know I have.

Some other believers could go door knocking or send out invitations to their church, but would have been happy if, as a result of their efforts, someone went to another church in the area. While they would have welcomed the person at their church, it wasn’t just about filling up their pews or hurrying up to drag them to their water baptism. For them it was about the people coming to know Jesus.

Do you see the difference?

This brings another thought to mind, and that is how some are in such a hurry to drag people into the baptismal tank and get them to speak in tongues. They will gather around and stay with the new people until both happen and then move on to the next ‘unsaved’ believer. It is all about getting two acts completed so a person is ‘saved’ and often there is little focus on helping them develop their relationship with God.

Something to think about….

“Guess What Honey – You’re Going to Hell!”

Guess What Honey – You’re Going to Hell!

It would be nice to think that the sentence above was a line out of a book or movie – it wasn’t. These were actually words used on Facebook a few months ago by a Catholic who took offense at another person’s disagreement with a twisted version of what one priest thought constituted a “mortal sin.”

What may have added fuel to the fire is that a few of the people who disagreed were ex-Catholics turned Episcopalian. Rather than rationally discuss the issues, the OP chose to go the route of attacking and patronizing those who disagreed.

I had to restrain myself from joining in and telling the OP that, as non-Catholics, the people she was disagreeing with are not subject to the worship, doctrine, or discipline of the Catholic Church. However, with the sort of mentality that lead to her attacking people she didn’t know, I doubt my pointing that out would have made any impact.

Spiritually abusive and legalistic attitudes do cross denominational boundaries. I’ve encountered members of groups known for being rigid in their thinking who have been open-minded and members of mainline denominations with bigoted attitudes where it comes to doctrines.

My church’s baptismal covenant encourages us to “respect the dignity of every human being.” For me, I’ve found part of that to include not condemning people to hell over doctrinal disagreements or otherwise usurping God’s place.

I think it’s helpful for Christians as a whole to realize that every group has a different basis for their doctrines that is no doubt influenced by the circumstances occurring at a time when the group came into being. When extra-Scriptural traditions or interpretations are treated as a requirement for salvation for all, there is too much of a risk of losing focus on the Gospel.

Adding to the Gospel invariably leads to taking away the whole message.

Examining Teachings #4: What Must I Do To Be Saved?

Some people have heard for years in their churches that Acts 2:38 says something like, “with the evidence of speaking in tongues” at the end. It is ingrained in them that the Scripture actually states this and it does not. When it is pointed out and they look it up in their Bible, they are shocked. Yes, they have previously read it on their own, but it was repeated in sermons so much that the faulty version stuck in their mind.

Similarly, many have heard that the preceding verse has the people asking, “What shall we do to be saved?” But the ‘to be saved’ is nowhere to be found. What happened is that Peter preached to them that they had crucified their awaited Messiah. Their response to this was “what shall we do?” What were they supposed to do, now that they realized what actually happened?

Yet there IS a place in the New Testament where that question is indeed asked in the book of Acts. Chapter 16 sees Paul and Silas thrown into prison. As they sung hymns of praise to God late at night while their fellow prisoners listened, there was an earthquake and everyone in the prison was freed. The jailer awoke, and seeing the doors ajar, he thought to kill himself as the authorities would take his life when they discovered the prisoners had escaped. But Paul called out to him and said to do himself no harm, that everyone was still there. Fearful, the jailer fell at their feet. Verse 30 says he asked them, “What must I do to be saved?”

What did Paul and Silas say in response? They told the jailer to believe in Jesus and he and his household would be saved.

They then spoke the word of the Lord to the jailer and those at his home. He washed the wounds of Silas and Paul. Then he and all his household were water baptized. He then fed them and all rejoiced in their newfound faith.

Did Paul and Silas say there were three steps to salvation and if one was not met, they would be lost? Did they show a list of rules that had to be kept afterward, in order to keep their salvation? There was not even a mention of speaking in tongues, either. It has been, and always will be, to believe in Jesus and you will be saved. This isn’t easy believism, as true belief brings about actions and a changed life through the working of God’s Spirit.

Examining Teachings #1: Drunk In The Spirit?
Examining Teachings #2: Jezebel and Shamefaced
Examining Teachings #3: Peculiar And Separate
Examining Teachings #4: What Must I Do To Be Saved?
Examining Teachings #5: Faith Without Works Is Dead

Pausing for a moment

I want to pause a moment from my other series and discuss on something major. Please feel free to offer insight as this subject is something I ponder and study quite often. The subject of tongues.

As I mentioned in my previous writings of “I Just Couldn’t Stay” this is kind of vulnerable for me to write about. My main questions are do tongues have to be an actual language for it to be real, or validated? How about where did the doctrine of the tongues in Acts are different from the tongues in Corinthians? I need some scriptures that say just that to see to difference.

Why is ok to add to the scripture the phrase “with the evidence of speaking in tongues” when it is not there at all? Yes, they spoke in tongues, but it doesn’t say “You shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in tongues.” How come no other apostle in the New Testament spoke about tongues other than Paul? Why didn’t the others speak on it, especially the ones that where there on Pentecost day? If you have reference where they did please let me know.

I can remember some of the teachings and experiences on tongues in my former churches. The church I attend now believes in the “evidence of speaking in tongues” but not as a requirement for salvation. Salvation happens at repentance and placing ones’ faith in Jesus.

I ask these questions because I struggled in my early walk with Jesus. Most of the time what I heard come out of my mouth was not an actual language. When I asked about it was sometimes said “It’s okay mines sound different as well.” Then how is tongues languages? Does it have to be languages or what?

In Acts tongues were clear cut languages that were understood on the day of Pentecost. I go back to Pentecost because if you hold to the soteriology of Acts 2:38 then those tongues are what is important to get you saved. The tongues in Corinthians are just for a few folks who have the Holy Ghost. You can see where someone would be very concerned if they aren’t speaking something just right. If our whole salvation is based on water and Spirit doctrine, and tongues is what lets us know if we have the Spirit and you can’t get the Holy Ghost without speaking in tongues, then we better make sure it is done right, right?

I have heard ministers say some people fake tongues in their churches. I have so many things I could say about that but I’m not. During my early years, I can assure you I was not faking. I tried my best to speak in what I thought at the time was tongues. I would panic if I didn’t speak in tongues on a daily or weekly basis. When I told the pastor, who talked to me after my conversion that I got the Holy Ghost I was not faking. I truly believed I had gotten the Holy Ghost and no one was going to tell me different. I wasn’t going to spend the next few months and years fighting at the altar.

However, as time grew on I doubted that. I didn’t hear languages. I heard something I can’t explain. I prayed and prayed that God would give me a new tongue. After a while I believed he did. I was fine for awhile. Then I become enamored with tongues. It was a big deal to me. I reasoned that my whole salvation was tongues. If I didn’t speak in tongues I was not saved. When I went down to pray I would get horrible headaches from praying so hard to “stir up the gift that was inside me” ie. tongues. I hated to pray sometimes at home, for prayer meant tongues. Tongues, tongues, tongues, I had to have them. Forget faith, that was for only financial needs, healing needs, marriage needs, my husband to get saved needs, tongues were for salvation. I didn’t even know how to have faith for my salvation. Who needed that when you had tongues?

I would see people be in church for months and years to receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. The teachings I would hear on it was some didn’t get it because they had hidden sin. They were hiding hidden anger, porn, or whatever that kept them from getting it. One story was about a cop and God expected so much out of him because he carried a gun to work so he had to really get with it to get the Holy Ghost. I am not saying these stories are not true, I wasn’t there when the stories where taking place, only there to hear tell about them.

My questions are why does God make it so hard for one to get saved? Why do we have to get perfect for him to give us his Gift of the Spirit? I have some new beliefs on tongues and the Holy Spirit. Still sorting out some things on it though. What say you?….