Author: Nancy | Page 6 | Spiritual Abuse Blogs

Questions with crazy answers

When I was young, I asked my (pastor’s wife) mom:

“Why do the most sinful people in the church speak in tongues and dance the most?”
Answer: I guess God knows they need more strength so he blesses them more.

“Why do people in other churches seem so much happier and nicer than our church people?”
Answer: I guess the devil doesn’t bother them so much since he knows they are already lost.

Now that I am older than she was then, I am guessing my mom probably wondered the same things and was just trying to give me answers that would keep me in church and she probably did not know or didn’t want to know the true answers herself.

So why are people not in UPC happier and nicer?? Because they are not in bondage; they are free to enjoy the joy of the Lord without condemnation. As for the dancing, tongue talking sinners, we all can guess what that answer should have been . . . . . 🙂

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What’s the attraction ‘Then and Now?’

I can’t help but wonder how my fairly bright, for the most part- honest, kind, compassionate, hard working – family got so enmeshed in this out of the mainstream religious group.

Here’s what I came up with:

My paternal grandfather died very young, leaving my grandmother with 13 children to rear during the depression, my father was next to the youngest at 5 years old. My grandmother was a big woman (I am 5’10” and have had aunts also this tall) stern, honest, religious –a very strong woman (she had to be). She was a Methodist, back when the Methodist also ‘shouted their hair down’.

From what I have learned, this Oneness group started out with a great deal of emotion, caring, and a desire to get as close to God as possible, but without a lot of the legalism now such a big part of it. I can see how the early Pentecostal group would be attractive to a single Mom with almost nothing to call her own and 13 kids to care for.

I remember stories of her praying while bags of groceries magically appeared on her porch and praying for money for shoes for her kids and finding a couple of dollars in the ditch beside the road. I also heard stories of her whipping the kids with a razor strap on their bare behinds –they could not afford pajamas or underwear so slept nude and were a prime target for discipline at nite. My dad says he immediately started bawling and did not get whipped as hard as his stoic older brother. Four of her five sons became Oneness preachers. One a National foreign missions director, one a state district superintendent for over 20 years, one a lifetime minister who started 3 churches, one (the youngest) a local minister. Admittedly, they were ALJC (Assemblies of the Lord Jesus Christ), not UPC (United Pentecostal Church) –not sure even Grandma would accept the legalism of today’s group. She was killed in a train accident when I was 10 years old so I guess I’ll never know how she would have felt about all the changes.

My maternal grandmother also lost her husband early on; my mother was 16 when her dad died of a stroke. Neither grandfather had been in the church. My maternal grandmother was very short (under 5′ tall). She was very kind, sweet, loving. She had come into Oneness with her own mother when my mom (her youngest) was around 6 and my grandfather was being a bit of a womanizer; supposedly my mom has a sister about her age somewhere. He was also a non practicing Catholic and there was almost no contact with his side of the family b/c of the difference in religion. So, I can see this kind, sweet, grandmother being led into this with her mother, seeking peace from a difficult life. As a child, I sensed she didn’t buy into some of the ‘rules‘, suggesting I needed a haircut (at least bangs) and buying me pants to wear in the cold weather and shorts or pedal pushers in summer.

So that’s where it started for us. My family had a bit of drive and made a place for themselves in the churches; this encouraged their children in turn to remain where there was a sense of belonging and maybe a bit of importance. Later, some were successful in business and/or education and they tended to not stay so close to the group. By the 3rd generation, many were no longer in the group –some had switched to UPC (more power, more people, etc.), some stayed in ALJC (either out of loyalty, or to remain significant). Some opted out altogether but tended to not go to church anywhere else and just attend the group church occasionally –it is difficult to accept somewhere else when you have been indoctrinated so intensely. By the 4th generation, the group was losing ground and only the diehards were staying, but this is a big family and a not so big organization, so it is still easy to find someone in the organization that knows someone in the family, particularly in the ALJC.

So, I have answered my question, “how did my family get sucked into this?” I was one who stayed longer b/c I am typically pretty loyal and obedient but also b/c I gave myself and my family a bit of lenience with some of the rules throughout the years.

If we had never been born into this and my grandparents lived today never having heard of this, I would like to think there would not be ANY of us in this today.

Why would anyone want to be a part of this? I guess it is b/c it is promoted as a way to draw closer to God and also a way that one can actually do something important or be someone important –after we are ‘King’s Kids’.

Hopefully, now that I have gotten that out of my system, I can keep moving forward in God’s grace without the baggage – maybe.

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Discerning between truth and error

I am seeing a pattern in my reading.

Books written from the Oneness perspective seem to be full of opinion, personal revelation of scripture, and fear but short on footnotes, facts, or other verification of statements presented.

An example is The Phenomenon of Pentecost by Frank J. Ewart. While this book begins with inspiration and an exciting view of early Pentecostalism in America and other places, it soon breaks down into political squabbling and of course Ewart’s point of view is presented as the only correct course. Then, in my opinion, he crosses the line by proclaiming that those who did not see or accept this view began dying in horrible ways or their churches inexplicably burned to the ground shortly after their refusal to join him. Of course, those who joined him were blessed beyond measure with masses of converts, healings, etc; some also seemed to die soon after their conversion but we are not told what caused their deaths and these deaths were seen as natural and simply a sad passing to be mourned by all.

Ewart gives no authentication anywhere in his book for events that happened; thus it would be difficult to either prove or disprove his accounts.

I also read a small book created first as a paper submitted to a religious symposium, Essentials of Oneness Theology by David Bernard. Bernard does present some footnotes at the end of his paper but throughout bases a lot of his views or beliefs on simply his understanding of scripture. His implication throughout seems to be that he (and other Oneness believers) somehow have a deeper insight than anyone who does not agree with him. Although at one point he quotes a Trinity theologian also presenting belief in one God as Jesus Christ, he still insists that all Trinitarians believe in three Gods. I have yet to find a single book by any Trinitarian writer that proclaims anything other than One God; the difference is more in the nature of the persons or manifestations of God and understanding of Him, but not in the concept of there being one or three or two for that matter. I feel it is disingenuous of Oneness writers, like Bernard, to ascribe a belief in three Gods to Trinitarians without allowing an explanation of the real and actual differences in belief.

I have found other Oneness writers also base much of their writing on their own revelation or opinion.

This is a major difference in non Oneness writers such as Thomas Fudge, who gave footnotes ad nauseam to the point that almost every word he uttered could be verified.

I also see a difference in spirit in these books; for example, in Letters from a Skeptic by Gregory Boyd, there is no fear involved in his attempt to convert.

So using the Bible as a final authority, what is the real message of salvation? Is it hard to understand and only given by revelation to a select few? Is it given with intent to cause extreme fear if not immediately accepted and acted upon? Does it come with long lists of performance demands such as found in the Old Testament Law and present day Oneness groups? Is it a message intended to divide those who believe in Christ and his redemptive nature and plan into the haves and have nots? Or did God so love the world that he gave his only begotten Son that WHOSOEVER believeth on Him should have everlasting life? God is Love and he loves me and you; messages of fear and division and pride are nowhere encouraged in the Bible.

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A wayfaring man though a fool

Right after high school, I attended a UPC (United Pentecostal Church) Bible school. One lesson I remember was about the UPC oneness doctrine. S.G. Norris taught us to believe it by ‘revelation’; however, if we didn’t yet have the revelation, then we should just take it by faith until the revelation came because “obedience is better than sacrifice.”

Well, most of us were young, altruistic, very impressionable and looking for something to believe in. Many of our age-mates were buying into Hare Krishna, the Moonies, becoming a hippie, anything to give them the feeling of being important, on the cutting edge, far out . . . . . Believing the UPC ‘revelation’ was also a bit far out and cutting edge (after all this doctrine was only a couple of decades into existence at this time, Pentecost was not even old enough to be an antique yet) and it was also pretty safe –at least not likely to be physically harmful. So we gave ourselves passionately to this revelation or heresy depending on your viewpoint.

Years later, I graduated secular college. One lesson I remember from there was about logic, how you can fool all of the people some of the time, some of the people all of the time, but you just can’t fool ALL of the people ALL of the time. The problem with logic was that no matter how illogical something might be on the surface, our human brains seemed to be wired so that we could twist them into believing even the most ridiculous dogma –for those of you who took humanities, think Jar Boy.

So, how does one decide what to believe?? My UPC pastor at the time said he could ‘argue all sides of almost any issue’. Today his UPC church has ‘levels of salvation.’

My then teenage son lamented “why doesn’t God just give us a specific list of rules?” My answer at the time was that God wanted us to have the pleasure of working it out using his instruction book, the Bible. I still think that is not too bad of an answer.

So if the plan of salvation is so simple that “a wayfaring man, though a fool need not err therein” why do we have a gazillion books and thousands of religions to explain it?? If God knows the ending from the beginning, why did he start with the LAW?? Why didn’t he just start with Christ and be done with it and not put humanity through all this angst?? Why did He need the OT (Old Testament)??

My thoughts:

The plan of salvation is truly very simple –Christ died as an atonement for man and anyone who believes has hope of salvation. So why is that so hard? That is so hard because human beings want to somehow be in charge, in the know, important, make up the rules, be in charge of the rules, etc. We can take any number of very simple tasks and write a thousand page manual.

So why did God make us this way? He could have made us more simple, more obedient, less questioning, less thoughtful. Well, that is an easy one — we are made in the image of God and even we understand the value of love that is not coerced, not paid for, not robotic. So God made us complicated beings for His pleasure – hey, He’s God, I have no problem with that.

Now back to the original question – why didn’t he just give us Christ from the beginning and save us all the OT angst? Why did He need the OT?

He didn’t need the OT, we did!

Because we would not have understood the value of Christ without what preceded Him. We have to have the LAW, the failures, the successes, the hopes, the dreams, the prophets, the kings, the priest, the plans, the fanfare to even begin to comprehend the value of the simplicity of a salvation so simple that even a “wayfaring man, though a fool need not err therein”.

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We Find A Hometown

For two years my husband was mostly in military hospitals with only a few weekend passes and I was either in TLQs, staying with family or in rental homes where I could ‘work out’ the rent by fixing up the places. We had three small children and no paycheck because he wouldn’t agree to sign a release for ‘severance’ pay, even though they offered up to $200,000, which at that time was a small fortune. He was wise enough to know that in his condition that wouldn’t last long—I was ready to take the money and take our chances –he was much wiser than I. Most weeks, our only income was $40 the Red Cross would give us for food. I spent $19 on Christmas that year, buying used FP toys and cleaning them with bleach –the kids thought it was a great Christmas. 🙂

Finally, after two years, the USAF put him on TDRL and gave us two years of ‘back pay’ which was several thousand dollars. We moved to the town we lived in until recently because it was close to medical facilities and the climate and area was good for the disabled. We bought a house. Eventually, my husband was put on the permanent and totally disabled list and everything pretty much stabilized –still lots of medical junk going on even today, but life did become more normal and we had a nice income, free medical, benefits, etc.

After a long drama, we finally began to live again, albeit a very different life. Hiding his hip to foot brace under his pants and removable back brace under his shirt, few people were totally aware of my husband’s condition; the kids were always a bit surprised when someone said something about him being disabled, they truly never realized he was.

For several years we went to a pretty normal UPC (United Pentecostal Church) church. The pastor was originally from my home state of Ohio and for the most part wasn’t a bad guy. There were a few incidents, like the time I developed numerous boils. I had never had a boil in my life and these were huge painful ones that put me in the hospital. The pastor in all seriousness told me ‘some people’ felt boils were a sign of sin in one’s life. I am not kidding! We called him a ‘Job’s comforter’ hahaha. One of the doctors thought it might be something in the city water that I couldn’t tolerate and we bought a water system for the house. The boils disappeared and even though we later moved and didn’t have a water system, they never came back. We do drink bottled water and have a filter on the fridge though —just don’t ever want to go through that again!

There were upsets in the church and good friends left (we had no involvement and stayed) but things were never the same after –people became paranoid and things were always tense. We bought a nicer house in a better neighborhood and changed to a different, closer UPC church. We didn’t ask for a letter and had no issues so were pretty much accepted at the new church, but it really didn’t surprise me that we seemed to no longer exist for the friends left at the old church. We had found this to be an expected UPC experience. (Another person recently blogged about the loss of friendships.)

We stayed at this church for several years also; in both churches, we did outreach, taught Sunday School, were totally involved, but in the new church even after several years we had no real friends. Our kids were cute, bright, sweet, well behaved and popular first in their home school groups and then in public high school, winning lots of awards, being president of clubs like National Honor Society and Mu Alpha Theta, Beta Club, Key Club, etc., but inexplicably were never accepted at church. It wasn’t the standards, at this time, we followed them more closely than most of the church. It wasn’t their personalities; our house was always full of their friends, just not generally friends from church.

They were baptized and had the Holy Ghost from an early age. They went to the church camp each summer and participated in all the children’s and youth activities but were never accepted. In talking to other parents later, we found that very few kids in this large church felt ‘accepted’ and most are not in church today at all.

When my son started college on the other side of town, we moved and began attending a small UPC church that was frowned upon by churches in the area because of their lack of ‘standards’. By this time, our standards were slipping a bit, mostly because my daughter and I had done the ‘read the Bible through in a year’ program a couple of times and discovered that some of this stuff wasn’t in there. LOL

I went back to college when she did and we graduated together in 2000. My husband and I were fine with the little non-conventional church. It was kind of like a mission church with no formality and though we participated and helped out a lot, we didn’t really make any close friends, we really just didn’t have much in common with anyone, but I traveled a lot for work and we were fine with everything. The kids married and my son and his wife moved to another state to do church work at a college.

My daughter started a family and then when my grandson was two and there were no activities at the church for him, my daughter and son-in-law wanted to go to another UPC church with more kids and activities. Of course, we were sticking with the grand kids. The new church was known for very strict standards and my husband and I thought this was not a good idea, but decided to go ahead and give it a try. At first it was OK –the kids and grand kids were a great ‘catch’ for this church and though they hadn’t come with a letter of permission, it was obvious the pastor wanted to accept them (they were and are nice looking, bright, educated, successful, what’s not to like hahaha).

We knew the drill, so my husband and I just played nice and ‘attended’ when we were in town. For three years the kids tried to belong, but without changing considerably –they didn’t make the changes of no more trimming hair or pants or makeup for my daughter, no more shorts, movies, etc. for my son-in-law– so they were not allowed to participate or ‘use their talents’.

They went to ‘discipleship’ classes that the whole church was asked to attend. My husband and I passed on these –been there, done that. Finally, they were asked to ‘sign a contract‘ stating they would follow all these ‘holiness’ standards to be a ‘real’ member of this church. That was kind of the end for all of us. My husband and I weren’t even asked to sign, I think it was pretty obvious we weren’t interested.

The pastor told my husband that cutting my hair was a ‘heaven or hell’ issue. My macho husband told him that how I looked was not the business of any man but him! hahaha I really love this guy.

At this point we thought we would just trot right back to the little non-conventional church and my husband called the pastor and was assured they would be very happy to have us back. My husband told him to ‘think about it’ and then let us know; we just didn’t want to cause anyone any problems. A couple of days later this pastor called and rambled on, barely taking a breath about why we were not welcome back –I at first thought it was a recorded message because it didn’t sound real. We were having a family get together and it was hard to hear the message (my husband just brought the phone in and before we realized what was going on, it was over and the pastor had said goodbye and hung up). We all sat there kind of dumbfounded asking each other –what in the world was that all about????

My son-in-law called both pastors to try to get an answer. Both wanted he and my daughter-in-law to come back –one with definite standards requirements, the other kind of ‘who knows what’ but made it clear that neither church wanted me or my husband. OK, this was definitely new; we should have been upset or hurt or something but so far, we just feel kind of a relief that we don’t have to keep trying to make these churches work.

We have been through an awful lot in our lifetime; this blog has many blank spaces because our story would fill a book. We know who we are, we are happily married, we love God, we have great kids and adorable, brilliant, beautiful, sweet grand kids LOL. We have good friends, just mostly not in UPC. I have a great job and my husband loves traveling with me. We also have an adopted 20 year old daughter that I haven’t even discussed here –she would rotate between our house and my bio kids houses and is a happy, well adjusted, very sweet kid.

Life is good. Eventually we will find a group of people in a church we can attend and enjoy. No hurry.

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