Debbie McNulty’s Podcast Interview – Calvary Gospel Church Sex Abuse Survivor

I have written extensively about Debbie McNulty’s childhood sexual abuse by alleged perpetrator Steven J. Dahl while she was a member of Calvary Gospel Church, a United Pentecostal Church in Madison, Wisconsin, where John W. Grant was the pastor. (He now calls himself a bishop.) There are others from CGC who were allegedly abused by various men in the church. Below is a list of the articles that will give extensive details about this case:

A UPC Church Responds To Sexual Abuse
A Pastor Who Should Not Have Been Part 1
A Pastor Who Should Not Have Been Part 2
A Pastor Who Should Not Have Been Part 3
UPCI Ministers Embrace Alleged Pedophile Part 1
UPCI Ministers Embrace Alleged Pedophile Part 2
One Woman Remembers Steven Dahl’s UPCI Connection
A Day Of Reckoning For Calvary Gospel Church

In September 2019 a two hour podcast interview with Debbie was released by a group where normally “atheist and agnostic Ex-Christians share their stories of deconversion.” While she considers herself neo-pagan, they made an exception in Debbie’s case and included her story in one of their podcasts. There are many who have experienced spiritual abuse who have walked away from Christianity and with what Debbie endured, it is no surprise that she is not a Christian. We previously shared this interview on social media but I want to provide some additional information about what is covered so that potential listeners will have a better idea of what is included and so that some, who may not have two hours to listen, might be able to skip to a section that interests them.

In the first 55 minutes, Debbie shares about herself concerning her past and when she started questioning the teachings of her former church as well as the Bible. Some may not like the discussion about the Bible, but don’t allow that to stop you from hearing her story. Debbie had a childhood that she describes as “marinated in fear” and speaks about her complex PTSD after years of watching films like A Thief In The Night and hearing sermon after sermon about the rapture, end-times and people being left behind. She was very involved at Calvary Gospel Church, was a student in the church operated school that was held in their basement and was also a Bible quiz captain. (Bible quizzing is very popular in some United Pentecostal churches.) At home, things were often difficult and troublesome as they were poor and her parents divorced after her dad committed adultery. She later found herself in an abusive marriage while attending a Baptist church. She was in her early 20s when she was questioning the Bible and felt that the book of Genesis fell apart upon examination, which lead her to reject it all.

Debbie at 11 years old

At about the 55 minute mark she begins speaking about her childhood sexual abuse and Steven Dahl, now of Oconto, Wisconsin and pastor of the Pentecostal Lighthouse Church, which meets in the old VFW building that was donated to the church. Debbie shows how she was groomed as an 11 year old and how he would complain to her about his marriage (he hadn’t been married long when Debbie’s abuse began) and how his wife wouldn’t have sex while fasting. During their first time together, he held her hand and then asked for a kiss, which she gave him on the nose. He allegedly responded that it wasn’t the type of kiss he wanted. Over time things escalated. Debbie felt responsible for the sexual abuse she endured when she was eleven and twelve years old. She shares that at twelve he unsuccessfully attempted to have intercourse with her.

Steven Dahl 1990s

Debbie was working with a 19-year-old at a church popcorn wagon when one day she suddenly blurted out what was happening. The teen asked questions of her and then told a minister and his wife from Calvary Gospel Church, whom she was living with, and they told her to tell Debbie that if she didn’t inform the pastor, that they would. Debbie had to make an appointment with pastor John W. Grant in order to tell him what was being done to her. Grant never spoke to her about it again after this meeting. A few days later is when Debbie received a phone call from Steven Dahl, saying he was leaving town and that it wasn’t her fault. At the next church service, she found out about him being caught in bed with his wife’s minor sister, Alice. They later married soon after Alice turned 18.

McNulty goes on to talk about the #churchtoo movement and mentioned that she hadn’t seen any United Pentecostal related stories. She started feeling that she had to tell her story, including the names of those involved and the church. At about the 1:22 mark she mentions my website and how she discovered she was not alone and that girls she had once babysat for had also been sexually abused. She became angry, sad and frustrated. All of this lead to her starting a private CGC support group on Facebook that started with about eight people and at the time of the interview had grown to 25 members.

At the 1:28 mark they speak about the Assembly bills in Wisconsin that hope to change the laws regarding child sexual abuse and remove the clergy privilege loophole that enables ministers to fail to report. Debbie spoke about how she and some others met with members of the Assembly and told them their stories of abuse. This meeting lead to a visit with the Madison police chief as well as to some investigative stories published by the Capital Times and written by Katelyn Ferral. On August 7, 2019, Debbie McNulty and another childhood sexual abuse survivor from Calvary Gospel Church, Rebecca Martin Byrd, both spoke at the press meeting that announced the Assembly bills. They were subsequently interviewed by some media outlets. At the 1:49 mark the interviewer is asking Debbie various questions and they speak about how Dahl had removed things from the Internet and how her husband confronted Dahl on his Facebook profile. She shared how Steven Dahl admits to adultery, but not that it allegedly happened due to sexually assaulting minors.

Debbie’s story is important and should be heard and known by others. Calvary Gospel Church has an alarming number of child sexual abuse survivors going back decades and these need to be investigated. No church should be permitted to enable, cover-up, turn a bind eye to, or fail to report instances of sexual abuse, especially those which happen to minor children. The United Pentecostal Church has many more instances of sexual abuse than their leaders and members realize or will admit to. While the organization is pretty small in North America, (Bernard stated in the January 2020 issue of Pentecostal Life that their North American churches only have an attendance of about 600,000 people and an estimated constituency of 800,000 as of August 2019.) these accounts of sexual abuse are just as alarming as those of the Catholic or Baptist churches.

Steve Dahl 11-23-22 Facebook

Known as ‘The Rev,’ Steve Dahl runs The Rev Oconto Car Club Facebook Group (started September 28, 2021). He organizes Car N Tunes events in Wisconsin and at the annual Oconto Fly-In Car & Tractor Show (He also runs or helps run that Facebook Page, which started February 16, 2018), where he has served as emcee and DJ at the event for thirteen years. The next Fly-In date is September 21, 2024.

You will find a complete list of articles in this series by clicking here.

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Book Giveaway – Christianity Without The Cross

As with all of our giveaways, this is only open to those with a USA mailing address.

The matter of the Westberg Resolution underscores a serious dilemma in the constitutional structure of the United Pentecostal Church.  . . .Issues like this resolution are decisions made by a minority on behalf of the majority which is extremely ‘problematic in terms of policy-making.’  . . .The following group of ministers have been identified as among the constituency of this group which carries the banner of doctrinal uniformity: R.D. Whalen, the late David F. Gray, Paul Price, Billy Hale, . . .John W. Grant and others. Such small but vocal groups maintain a great deal of control. These comments reflect a fairly widespread opinion backed up by an examination of the procedural by-laws of the organization which concludes that because only a small portion of ministers actually attend General Conference the result is that the UPC is ‘a minority policy making organization.’ The high figures estimate that less than one-seventh of the ministerial constituency were present for the discussion on this issue at the Salt Lake City General Conference.– Thomas A. Fudge

This is your chance to receive a used copy of Christianity Without the Cross: A History of Salvation in Oneness Pentecostalism by Thomas Fudge, a former United Pentecostal Church member, whose father is an ordained minister in the organization. It’s available to order from Amazon for $29.95 for the paperback or $28.00 for the Kindle version. Fudge interviewed over 200 people and thoroughly documents information concerning their history. One thing you rarely see mentioned is the fact that one of the two groups which formed the UPC was not as hard line in beliefs as the UPC is today. Some believed a person was saved when they came to God in repentance. This can be seen in the very first edition of their official publication, The Pentecostal Herald, where they invited differing articles on the “new birth.”

To view the first 25 pages of his book go here. You may read an article from a Canadian newspaper which described the then forthcoming book as well as an article by Thomas Fudge concerning why he wrote the book.

This giveaway is a drawing and not a first come, first served giveaway. To enter, just leave a comment to show you wish to be included. The drawing will close on Saturday, October 26 at 8pm (eastern time), after which I will draw the winner. You will then need to email me your mailing address if I do not already have it. Watch your spam email folder. There is absolutely no cost to enter. Don’t be alarmed if your comment does not immediately show as they require approval when you are commenting for the first time.

We always provide these at no charge to our readers.

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Book Giveaway- Healing Together: A Guide to Supporting Sexual Abuse Survivors

As with all of our giveaways, this is only open to those with a USA mailing address.

That is what trauma does: it plunges one person underwater without warning, and as she fights to survive, those nearest to her try to bring her to safety- and it’s not easy. Experts warn people who are drowning to be as still as possible- so lifeguards can save them. When a crisis hits us, more often than not, our emotions spin out of control, and we need help as we thrash in the water, dipping below the surface. Your presence can keep us afloat, breathing and surviving the experience. – Anne Marie Miller

This is your chance to receive a new copy of Healing Together: A Guide to Supporting Sexual Abuse Survivors by Anne Marie Miller. It’s available to order from Amazon for $12.99 for the paperback or $1.99 for the Kindle version. It’s one of several new books that have been published this year, with Anne’s book being released just last week.

This giveaway is a drawing and not a first come, first served giveaway. To enter, just leave a comment to show you wish to be included. The drawing will close on Saturday, October 26 at 8pm (eastern time), after which I will draw the winner. You will then need to email me your mailing address if I do not already have it. Watch your spam email folder. There is absolutely no cost to enter. Don’t be alarmed if your comment does not immediately show as they require approval when you are commenting for the first time.

We always provide these at no charge to our readers.

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Book Giveaway- We Too: How the Church Can Respond Redemptively to the Sexual Abuse Crisis

As with all of our giveaways, this is only open to those with a USA mailing address.

But why does sexual abuse happen within our ecclesiastical walls? Shouldn’t the church that represents Jesus Christ- the One who loved children and cursed those who harmed them- do the very best job at protecting others from harm? Shouldn’t the church be a place a survivor could run in order to be protected, heard, and given restorative justice? Sadly, no. Because so often the church has jumped into bed with power and politics and has given preferential treatment to its reputation instead of the broken cries of survivors. – Mary DeMuth

This is your chance to receive a new copy of We Too: How the Church Can Respond Redemptively to the Sexual Abuse Crisis by Mary DeMuth. It’s available to order from Amazon for $11.51 for the paperback or $9.99 for the Kindle version. I mentioned this book in a blog about several new books that have been released this year.

Sexual predators are often charming. They get away with serial predation precisely because they’ve honed their interpersonal skills and practiced how to put people at ease. They know how to befriend and be kind to 98 percent of the population- and at the same time seek out the vulnerable. They tell the vulnerable 2 percent that no one would believe even if they did tell. Why? Because, as I mentioned above, they are typically not people you’d expect to be predatory. The 98 percent is part of their overall plan. In 98 percent of their lives, they’re upstanding, helpful, generous, funny, self-deprecating, ‘honest,’ and engaging. So if or when survivors bring something to light, very few believe them. Why? Because who wants to believe that your amazing friend is actually a wolf in sheep’s clothing. Surely not! Surely the #MeToo movement has gone crazy if it can even accuse this wonderful person of such a heinous crime. – Mary DeMuth

This giveaway is a drawing and not a first come, first served giveaway. To enter, just leave a comment to show you wish to be included. The drawing will close on Saturday, October 12 at 8pm (eastern time), after which I will draw the winner. You will then need to email me your mailing address if I do not already have it. There is absolutely no cost to enter. Don’t be alarmed if your comment does not immediately show as they require approval when you are commenting for the first time.

We always provide these at no charge to our readers.

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Book Giveaway – Escaping the Maze of Spiritual Abuse

As with all of our giveaways, this is only open to those with a USA mailing address.

The analogy of the maze is a powerful picture of the journey you will go on in this book. In order to reach a point of exploring the features of healthy Christian cultures we must first navigate the difficult experience of spiritual abuse. It may seem strange to spend a considerable time discussing spiritual abuse in a book which also seeks to explore creating healthy Christian cultures. However, we feel that we can’t really explore what is healthy without an investigation of what is unhealthy. If we truly want to build healthier cultures we must enter the maze, look at the dead ends, investigate the loops, explore the multiple routes and ultimately find the exit. – Lisa Oakley and Justin Humphreys

This is your chance to receive a new copy of Escaping the Maze of Spiritual Abuse: Creating Healthy Christian Cultures by Lisa Oakley and Justin Humphreys. We previously gave away two copies in our private support group on Facebook. It’s available to order from Amazon for $15.79 for the paperback or $8.49 for the Kindle version. I mentioned this book in a blog about several new books that have been released this year.

We thought it might be useful to include a brief summary of the main features of responding well to a story of spiritual abuse.
1. Actively listen to the story, showing that you are taking it seriously.
2. Ensure the individual telling the story knows that he or she is valued.
3. Do not minimize, judge or defend a person or the church.
4. Be clear about the boundaries to confidentiality.
5. Take care if offering prayer or Scripture as a response- ensure that the individual can make a choice as to whether he or she wants this.
6. Avoid using Matthew 18 as a first principle in responding to a disclosure of spiritual abuse.
7. Do not rush people to a place of forgiveness and reconciliation.
8. Discuss the risk of harm with your safeguarding coordinator/lead and consider next steps carefully.
9. Ensure that there is a policy and procedure including spiritual abuse in your church or denomination and that this is followed. – Lisa Oakley and Justin Humphreys

This giveaway is a drawing and not a first come, first served giveaway. To enter, just leave a comment to show you wish to be included. The drawing will close on Saturday, October 5 at 8pm (eastern time), after which I will draw the winner. You will then need to email me your mailing address if I do not already have it. There is absolutely no cost to enter. Don’t be alarmed if your comment does not immediately show as they require approval when you are commenting for the first time.

We always provide these at no charge to our readers.

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Shop at our Amazon store! As an Amazon Influencer, this website earns from qualifying purchases.

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