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Informational post on speaking in tongues #7

This is just a little ‘did you know’ informational post on the subject of speaking in tongues, shared as some food for thought. It goes along with a previous blog where I stated, “Did you know that there are only three instances in the entire book of Acts where it is said that believers spoke in tongues? They are Acts 2, 10 and 19.” In this segment, we will look further into Acts 19.

Did you ever wonder why little attention is often paid to a portion of Acts 19:6 in Pentecostal type churches? Are you even aware that the men in Ephesus prophesied or do you only recall speaking in tongues being mentioned? Should one be emphasized more than the other in the passage?

After the Holy Spirit came upon these men, scripture mentions speaking in tongues and prophecy, without specifying if all spoke in tongues and all prophesied, or some did one and some did the other. We have no way of knowing how it happened from the text. It is usually assumed by Pentecostals that all twelve spoke in tongues, but we do not really know. Have you ever pondered this?

Is it not interesting that both speaking in tongues and prophecy are mentioned by the Apostle Paul in 1 Corinthians 12 as being gifts of the Spirit? Have you ever considered that all speaking in tongues is this gift and nothing else?

Acts 19:6:

And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied. KJV
Then when Paul laid his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in other tongues and prophesied. NLT
And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they began speaking with tongues and prophesying. NASB
When Paul placed his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied. NIV

Leaving Church

Over the past few years, I’ve looked at several of the various oddities within this church, the conservative movement I was a part of, and Pentecost as a whole. No one would answer my questions for a long time. The answer was always to go ask the pastor. When I asked the pastor I was told that I was rebellious or thought I was smarter than him. I was expected to accept what was preached as gospel, and never look to the gospel or the God of the gospel for answers beyond the pulpit.

I hope these are anomalies- that they are not common in Pentecost. But the more I have read, the more I realize that I’m not alone in my experiences.

For a long time I refused to consider leaving the church, because they preached Jesus name baptism, Holy Ghost, and holiness of dress. But questions about other teachings started creeping into my mind. After two separate incidents, a year apart, when I was accused and charged guilty of something without being given a chance to explain (or in the second case to even know what they were talking about), I started looking into the scriptures more thoroughly. I stopped reading the Bible, but if something seemed strange, I’d reference the passage and read it in several versions if need be.

Several things began to disturb me:

The belief that the pastor was always right, and that he could not be questioned.
The concept that if the pastor said to do something, it must be done.
Preference of one person over another.
Letting down on standards held for decades, while still arguing that others (who used the same reasons for letting down on other things) were wrong.
Making women lesser saints.
Not allowing women to be as involved.
Catch phrases that demanded a shout.
Rebukes for not shouting on catch phrases, or not shouting enough.
Meaningless songs with a few words repeated over and over and over and…

It’s sad, really. I didn’t want to leave, and I never thought I would stop believing certain things. I’ve wondered if I would have been better off if I’d left months or years ago when the problems started. I miss my church friends, but there weren’t that many of them. I miss church activities to a degree. But I’m not sad to leave.

I wonder what will happen now, where I’ll go or what I’ll do. Will there be a church I feel comfortable in? Where? When? Should I take time off from church or plow back into it? Should I go to a Oneness church or just let that go? Will I ever be able to marry now that I’ve left? Will I put too much emphasis on a new pastor, following the old, ingrained rules?

There are no answers to these questions, but I’m satisfied. At first after leaving I crammed on books about exit and spiritual abuse. I don’t feel like doing that now. Maybe I should- I’ve been told it takes years to work through the problems. Maybe I just wasn’t treated that badly, or maybe its just that somewhere I still believe that I’m not leaving God just because I walk out the doors of a particular church.

In that particular way, I feel miles ahead of the ministers and saints I’ve talked to. Almost all of them think I need a pastor and need this church. Not so. I need God. And my pastor is not my god, and my church is not my god. My God fills the universe, but also stepped into time and was crucified to a cross… and rose again. His grace is sufficient, and I’ll trust Him.

Informational post on speaking in tongues #6

This is just a little ‘did you know’ informational post on the subject of speaking in tongues, shared as some food for thought.

When it comes to speaking in tongues, have you ever considered how things were in the New Testament times?

As mentioned in my previous blog, there are only three instances in the entire book of Acts where it is said that believers spoke in tongues.

Consider that none of those who are recorded in Acts as speaking in tongues had been previously taught about the subject. They were not instructed to expect to speak in another language. Not one person is seen as telling, or being told, that believers must/will/should speak in tongues. Do you find that to be in contrast with Pentecostal churches today?

Another interesting point to ponder is that you never hear of the believers in Acts speaking in tongues again after they initially did. I realize for some this is difficult to believe or grasp. Yet you will find no mention of Peter speaking in tongues a second time. There are no passages about Philip, John, James, Andrew, Thomas, Matthew or Mary speaking in tongues after the day of Pentecost. Cornelius, as well as his relatives and friends, are never observed as speaking in tongues again after Peter’s visit.

Is that not interesting considering the emphasis on tongues today? Either it never happened again with these Christians, or all the authors of the New Testament felt it was unimportant to mention. Does this not pique your interest and merit further thought?

“We don’t want problems” – Mary’s royal gripe session

My name was probably removed from the roll this weekend. I’m really sad. I don’t know what I expected, but this wasn’t it. The pastor has never tried to contact me. Only four people have called. Some of my best friends never even called. We’re supposed to go to service four times a week. I haven’t been for three weeks and no one ever called?!

They think that church attendance is necessary for salvation, but no one is concerned enough for my soul- not my friends, and not the pastor- to call and see what’s happened, or to try to work things out? What happened to the Biblical methods of restoring such an one in the spirit of meekness? Of searching for the lost coin or the lost sheep? Jesus came to seek and save… why would the church sit on its hands and says “good riddance?” I’ve seen this before from inside, heard the stories of how wrong those who leave are. I shouldn’t be surprised, but I am.

Adding to that is the knowledge that many other Oneness Pentecostal churches will not accept me. It’s wrong to have to call a church and ask permission to attend because I went to the same denomination before, to be required to explain- very carefully so as not to incriminate the pastor- why I might have ‘problems.’ So I won’t. Even pastors who tell me to get back in church don’t want me at theirs! I am not sure what they expect me to do, because the situation at my former church is untenable, but I can’t tell anyone else what is happening; I can’t prove much and most of what I can prove is considered acceptable or within the bounds of ‘ministry.’ I DO NOT believe that being called a heifer or other derogatory terms is considered ministry.

If a pastor tells you he could care less if you attend or not or if other churches will not allow you to attend because “they don’t want problems,” yet all believe that if you don’t go to church you are in disobedience to the Bible, and that you can go to hell for that, then they are effectively saying “Go to Hell.” What kind of Christian attitude is that? What kind of Christian attitude does the person have who says they are a leader and therefore cannot be questioned, or who says that a person is in rebellion for questioning certain words or actions? What happened to love, mercy and grace?

Books on Codependency Giveaway!

We are still celebrating hitting 100 blogs on August 6. 🙂

We have given away books for years as part of the spiritualabuse.org ministry and this will be our fifth one via this new blog area. This is your chance to receive one or more books on codependency. We have given away books on the subject through the years as it is often an issue in unhealthy churches. It was recently mentioned in one of our blogs.

Up for grabs are several used books:

~~Two hardback copies of Codependent No More & Beyond Codependency by Melody Beattie~~. TAKEN
One paperback copy of Facing Codependence by Pia Mellody. There is some underlining in the very beginning of the book.
Three paperback copies of Codependent No More by Melody Beattie. One copy has numerous pencil markings, but is still very readable. TWO TAKEN

The first people with a USA mailing address who respond will receive their choice of book(s) at no charge to them. To respond, just leave a comment for this post. Please understand that comments require approval unless you have previously commented. So while it may look like you are first or second, there may be someone ahead of you who comment is pending. Be sure to use your actual email address when setting up to comment as I will be contacting you. (Do not put the email or address in your actual comment.)

Be sure to mention in your comment which book(s) you would like and you may refer to them by number.

You still have the opportunity to receive one or more books on Boundaries by Henry Cloud & John Townsend here. You must comment separately on that blog to make a request.