Category: Churches | Page 34 | Spiritual Abuse Blogs

Debbie McNulty’s Podcast Interview – Calvary Gospel Church Sex Abuse Survivor

I have written extensively about Debbie McNulty’s childhood sexual abuse by alleged perpetrator Steven J. Dahl while she was a member of Calvary Gospel Church, a United Pentecostal Church in Madison, Wisconsin, where John W. Grant was the pastor. (He now calls himself a bishop.) There are others from CGC who were allegedly abused by various men in the church. Below is a list of the articles that will give extensive details about this case:

A UPC Church Responds To Sexual Abuse
A Pastor Who Should Not Have Been Part 1
A Pastor Who Should Not Have Been Part 2
A Pastor Who Should Not Have Been Part 3
UPCI Ministers Embrace Alleged Pedophile Part 1
UPCI Ministers Embrace Alleged Pedophile Part 2
One Woman Remembers Steven Dahl’s UPCI Connection
A Day Of Reckoning For Calvary Gospel Church

In September 2019 a two hour podcast interview with Debbie was released by a group where normally “atheist and agnostic Ex-Christians share their stories of deconversion.” While she considers herself neo-pagan, they made an exception in Debbie’s case and included her story in one of their podcasts. There are many who have experienced spiritual abuse who have walked away from Christianity and with what Debbie endured, it is no surprise that she is not a Christian. We previously shared this interview on social media but I want to provide some additional information about what is covered so that potential listeners will have a better idea of what is included and so that some, who may not have two hours to listen, might be able to skip to a section that interests them.

In the first 55 minutes, Debbie shares about herself concerning her past and when she started questioning the teachings of her former church as well as the Bible. Some may not like the discussion about the Bible, but don’t allow that to stop you from hearing her story. Debbie had a childhood that she describes as “marinated in fear” and speaks about her complex PTSD after years of watching films like A Thief In The Night and hearing sermon after sermon about the rapture, end-times and people being left behind. She was very involved at Calvary Gospel Church, was a student in the church operated school that was held in their basement and was also a Bible quiz captain. (Bible quizzing is very popular in some United Pentecostal churches.) At home, things were often difficult and troublesome as they were poor and her parents divorced after her dad committed adultery. She later found herself in an abusive marriage while attending a Baptist church. She was in her early 20s when she was questioning the Bible and felt that the book of Genesis fell apart upon examination, which lead her to reject it all.

At about the 55 minute mark she begins speaking about her childhood sexual abuse and Steven Dahl, now of Oconto, Wisconsin and pastor of the Pentecostal Lighthouse Church, which meets in the old VFW building that was donated to the church. Debbie shows how she was groomed as an 11 year old and how he would complain to her about his marriage (he hadn’t been married long when Debbie’s abuse began) and how his wife wouldn’t have sex while fasting. During their first time together, he held her hand and then asked for a kiss, which she gave him on the nose. He allegedly responded that it wasn’t the type of kiss he wanted. Over time things escalated. Debbie felt responsible for the sexual abuse she endured when she was eleven and twelve years old. She shares that at twelve he unsuccessfully attempted to have intercourse with her.

Debbie was working with a 19-year-old at a church popcorn wagon when one day she suddenly blurted out what was happening. The teen asked questions of her and then told a minister and his wife from Calvary Gospel Church, whom she was living with, and they told her to tell Debbie that if she didn’t inform the pastor, that they would. Debbie had to make an appointment with pastor John W. Grant in order to tell him what was being done to her. Grant never spoke to her about it again after this meeting. A few days later is when Debbie received a phone call from Steven Dahl, saying he was leaving town and that it wasn’t her fault. At the next church service, she found out about him being caught in bed with his wife’s minor sister, Alice. They later married soon after Alice turned 18.

McNulty goes on to talk about the #churchtoo movement and mentioned that she hadn’t seen any United Pentecostal related stories. She started feeling that she had to tell her story, including the names of those involved and the church. At about the 1:22 mark she mentions my website and how she discovered she was not alone and that girls she had once babysat for had also been sexually abused. She became angry, sad and frustrated. All of this lead to her starting a private CGC support group on Facebook that started with about eight people and at the time of the interview had grown to 25 members.

At the 1:28 mark they speak about the Assembly bills in Wisconsin that hope to change the laws regarding child sexual abuse and remove the clergy privilege loophole that enables ministers to fail to report. Debbie spoke about how she and some others met with members of the Assembly and told them their stories of abuse. This meeting lead to a visit with the Madison police chief as well as to some investigative stories published by the Capital Times and written by Katelyn Ferral. On August 7, 2019, Debbie McNulty and another childhood sexual abuse survivor from Calvary Gospel Church, Rebecca Martin Byrd, both spoke at the press meeting that announced the Assembly bills. They were subsequently interviewed by some media outlets. At the 1:49 mark the interviewer is asking Debbie various questions and they speak about how Dahl had removed things from the Internet and how her husband confronted Dahl on his Facebook profile. She shared how Steven Dahl admits to adultery, but not that it allegedly happened due to sexually assaulting minors.

Debbie’s story is important and should be heard and known by others. Calvary Gospel Church has an alarming number of child sexual abuse survivors going back decades and these need to be investigated. No church should be permitted to enable, cover-up, turn a bind eye to, or fail to report instances of sexual abuse, especially those which happen to minor children. The United Pentecostal Church has many more instances of sexual abuse than their leaders and members realize or will admit to. While the organization is pretty small in North America, (Bernard stated in the January 2020 issue of Pentecostal Life that their North American churches only have an attendance of about 600,000 people and an estimated constituency of 800,000 as of August 2019.) these accounts of sexual abuse are just as alarming as those of the Catholic or Baptist churches.

Known as ‘The Rev,’ Steve Dahl runs The Rev Oconto Car Club Facebook Group (started September 28, 2021). He organizes Car N Tunes events in Wisconsin and at the annual Oconto Fly-In Car & Tractor Show (He also runs or helps run that Facebook Page, which started February 16, 2018), where he has served as emcee and DJ at the event for thirteen years. The next Fly-In date is September 21, 2024.

You will find a complete list of articles in this series by clicking here.

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Book Giveaway – Christianity Without The Cross

As with all of our giveaways, this is only open to those with a USA mailing address.

The matter of the Westberg Resolution underscores a serious dilemma in the constitutional structure of the United Pentecostal Church. . . .Issues like this resolution are decisions made by a minority on behalf of the majority which is extremely ‘problematic in terms of policy-making.’ . . .The following group of ministers have been identified as among the constituency of this group which carries the banner of doctrinal uniformity: R.D. Whalen, the late David F. Gray, Paul Price, Billy Hale, . . .John W. Grant and others. Such small but vocal groups maintain a great deal of control. These comments reflect a fairly widespread opinion backed up by an examination of the procedural by-laws of the organization which concludes that because only a small portion of ministers actually attend General Conference the result is that the UPC is ‘a minority policy making organization.’ The high figures estimate that less than one-seventh of the ministerial constituency were present for the discussion on this issue at the Salt Lake City General Conference.– Thomas A. Fudge

This is your chance to receive a used copy of Christianity Without the Cross: A History of Salvation in Oneness Pentecostalism by Thomas Fudge, a former United Pentecostal Church member, whose father is an ordained minister in the organization. It’s available to order from Amazon for $29.95 for the paperback or $28.00 for the Kindle version. Fudge interviewed over 200 people and thoroughly documents information concerning their history. One thing you rarely see mentioned is the fact that one of the two groups which formed the UPC was not as hard line in beliefs as the UPC is today. Some believed a person was saved when they came to God in repentance. This can be seen in the very first edition of their official publication, The Pentecostal Herald, where they invited differing articles on the “new birth.”

To view the first 25 pages of his book go here. You may read an article from a Canadian newspaper which described the then forthcoming book as well as an article by Thomas Fudge concerning why he wrote the book.

This giveaway is a drawing and not a first come, first served giveaway. To enter, just leave a comment to show you wish to be included. The drawing will close on Saturday, October 26 at 8pm (eastern time), after which I will draw the winner. You will then need to email me your mailing address if I do not already have it. Watch your spam email folder. There is absolutely no cost to enter. Don’t be alarmed if your comment does not immediately show as they require approval when you are commenting for the first time.

We always provide these at no charge to our readers.

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A Wisconsin Woman Receives An Anonymous Letter

Sometimes a victim of sexual abuse will be bribed or threatened somehow in order to keep them quiet. It happens for various reasons and doesn’t always come from the perpetrator. If the abuse is somehow related to a church, the pastor or others in leadership may want it kept quiet as they don’t want the church in the news. If the perpetrator is a minister, or a relative of a minister, great pressure can be placed upon the victim to remain silent. Some of those people retain their license or even gain it after assaulting someone because their crime was never reported as it ought to have been, such as in the case of Glen Uselmann and Don Martin, where UPCI District Superintendents endorsed them for their licenses. It is horrible enough when someone is sexually harmed but that harm is compounded when coercion or threats are involved to convince them to remain silent.

Sometimes those who expose these abuses get threatened or intimidated and that brings me to the reason for this article. There is a woman, who I will call Kate, who has experience in the Wisconsin District of the United Pentecostal Church. She has been sharing on her Facebook profile recent news reports which have partially exposed decades of unreported child sexual abuse at Calvary Gospel Church in Madison. Kate shared, “My intent on posting was to make people aware in their churches. Ask questions and do some digging regardless of what church leadership says. If churches are ‘families,’ families share heartaches as well as victories. Justice needs to be done. Not coverups.” She further shared that in response she received private messages and that some “brought up many instances of deviant behavior in a couple churches here in Wisconsin.”

This past week, on September 25, 2019, Kate received an anonymous typed letter from someone who mailed it in the Milwaukee area (or at least that is where the postmark originated). The envelope did not include her street address but was marked ‘general delivery’ and there was no return address. She believes the communication was either to intimidate her into not posting anymore about sexual abuse in the United Pentecostal Church, or to remind her of what happened many years ago with a relative. It was three short sentences as follows (with a name redacted as they were a minor at the time and his records were sealed). [screenshot of the letter]

[redacted] victims have not forgotten.
Think of those that have committed suicide because of the abuse.
[redacted] has received a lot of mercy,

I have been in contact with the woman who received this letter and, with their permission, I am sharing the background of what happened. I don’t like when people are threatened or intimidated to keep quiet and while whoever wrote this may or may not have intended for it to be taken that way, it is exactly how the receiver felt when they read it. Kate is coming forward publicly, though anonymously because this involves her son, in an effort to be open and to remove whatever power this person might think they have over her. I know it wasn’t easy for Kate to share about what happened and I appreciate her honesty and openness in sharing what was a painful and difficult time for everyone involved.

I believe it was a bullying tactic to remind me. What right did I have of posting coverups in the church? Look at you and the incident that happened years ago. . . .Whoever sent it wants to make it a comparison. Look at you… and you’re posting this content from Grant’s church.

Let me take you back to the late 1980s, where a sexual assault occurred in an ACE school restroom at a United Pentecostal Church in Fond Du Lac, Wisconsin. The assault referenced in the anonymous letter was regarding Kate’s son when he was 15 years old and a male victim about two years younger. The supervisor of the classroom would often leave the students unattended for long periods of time. Besides Kate’s son, it is alleged that this supervisor assaulted at least one student, though it was never reported to authorities. He was married at the time and had four young children.

Kate’s son was reported to police. He went through professional counseling for 1.5 years. It wasn’t covered up and his parents worked with the victim’s mother. Letters were written to the parents. Kate stated that the victim’s mother “never held any animosity toward us. We prayed together and worked through the whole ordeal. She is a good person. She had every right to be angry with us.” She went on to share, “We were totally broken when this happened. But we knew it all had to come out in order for everyone to heal. In no way do we condone this deviancy. We didn’t cover it up. And apologies were made- sincere heartfelt apologies. We called NO ONE A liar. Because curiosity in children is as old as time. Children have to learn to keep in their own space and never touch anyone or be touched inappropriately. Parental guidance is a must.” The records for Kate’s son were ordered sealed. The church school was later shut down.

Tragically, later as an adult, his victim committed suicide via an overdose. It may have been around ten years later. It isn’t really known whether this was related to the assault, something else, or a combination of things, but some people blamed Kate’s son. Though the letter mentions suicides in relation to the assault, this was the only one.

I pressed Kate for additional information as the letter referenced more than one victim as it was plural. She shared that her son also assaulted her niece and that this information was not publicly known. Kate stated, “My sister, her daughters and I remain close after all these years.” Two United Pentecostal pastors in Wisconsin know about this other assault and Kate wonders if the wife of one of them sent the anonymous letter. That pastor’s wife has a son, who is alleged to have assaulted more than one girl. To my knowledge, he was never reported, but later went on to receive a license in the UPCI, though he no longer is licensed.

The reports coming out of the Wisconsin District of the United Pentecostal Church are many and new ones keep coming to the surface. Though I have written much about Calvary Gospel Church in the past, as you can see from the two other churches mentioned, they aren’t the only UPCI church in Wisconsin that has these secrets, though they may be the worst. I imagine you will be reading new reports here, and elsewhere, in the future. Meanwhile, if this anonymous letter was meant to intimidate or threaten, this article should put an end to that thought. Kate is determined to continue speaking out about the various abuses in UPCI churches.

You will find a complete list of articles in this series by clicking here.

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United Pentecostal Pastor Roy Grant And A Funeral

Last night I heard about a funeral conducted at Calvary Gospel Church of Madison, Wisconsin during their normal evening service time on September 25, 2019. While there was a pop-up announcement on their website and a mention on their church Facebook page, it has been shared there was no sign seen at the church to warn any possible visitors that service was cancelled and a funeral was being held.

I have written extensively about this United Pentecostal Church and the sexual abuse that has occurred there for decades. John Grant and his son, Roy Grant, are the pastors. There is so much more concerning them and this church that will be covered in the future, by myself as well as others. For this article I will mostly let the event speak for itself and share minimal commentary.

I’ve never in my entire life seen or heard something so insane!

A woman who attended the funeral left very angry and upset at what she witnessed from Roy Grant. I am sharing, with her permission, a portion of what she wrote. It is sad and disturbing that someone would do this at a funeral and equally bothersome that no one attempted to stop it, but instead most in attendance appeared to be supportive. I guess that shouldn’t surprise me as I watched John Grant receive a standing ovation from members after a local reporter covered some of the cases of child sexual abuse which occurred during his time as pastor and went unreported by him. Below are the woman’s thoughts on what happened.

“I am so pissed! I just came from a friend’s funeral at my former church. What started out as a lovely memorial service for a wonderful person took a sharp left turn down weird street when the pastor tried to raise him from the dead! I kid you not. You can’t make this stuff up! He asked God to show that he is sovereign by having my friend ‘pass back over into the land of the living.’ Then he paused and said ‘I told God I’d give him a minute’. Then there was a moment of silence. Near the end he said ‘or just knock.’ . . . The atmosphere was super weird and uncomfortable. To make matters worse, some guy spoke up and said ‘when 2 or more agree…I agree with you, pastor.’ Soon other people from around the standing-room only sanctuary were saying ‘I agree.’ Finally the pastor said ‘Whoever agrees, please stand.’ Everyone except a handful of people stood up. . . Then he closed the service like nothing happened!”

This man was brought back to life once before (thru medical intervention-not like at a prayer service or anything). But it was kind of like they expected him to be brought back again and couldn’t just let him Rest In Peace.

I went to the website where they stream the services live to see if they had done this for the funeral and they had. Anyone may go there to watch for themselves, though the September 25, 2019 broadcast will only be temporarily available. This portion of the service starts around the 1:02:35 mark and ends at 1:09:24. Below is my transcription of what Roy Grant said and in the brackets are what was happening.

“So here today, in front of all of these witnesses, on the behalf of a promise made to a friend. Somewhere between the line of insanity and faith, I don’t know. But I humbly call out before God, with faith believing, make this most humble request. In the name of our precious Lord and Jesus, Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, I ask for Jeff [last name omitted], a mighty man of valor, to arise from the state that he is in and cross back over that barrier into the land of the living. [Short period of silence] I promised the Lord I would go a minute of silence. And since we can’t see our brother, just knock bro. All you gotta do is knock. [longer period of silence]

“I believe God is trying to say something to us here tonight. [brief silence] As I said earlier, that God is a sovereign God. I neither give life and it’s not my job to take a life. But I no less believe today, now, than I did at 5 o’clock, 6 o’clock, a week ago, a month ago. I’ve never done anything like this before in my life. It’s been a long week since Brother Jeff passed. I’m sure it’s been long for the family. I don’t mean to embarrass anyone. I don’t mean to make light of anything. I still b… [he cuts off his word and then there is brief silence]

“Let’s just do this. If you agree, let’s just stand and lift our hands toward heaven. [people stand and raise their hands] You see, this isn’t putting me on the spot. I’m not the one being put on the spot, it’s God. Lord, I pray that your hand would be upon us this day. God, we are exercising our faith, we’ve never experienced anything ever like this. I’ve never done anything like this. I’ve never been here before. We’ve got your word says where two or three agree. Praise God, praise God, praise God. [walks down to casket that is in front of the pulpit] Even now Lord Jesus, God, I pray God over this casket. God I pray, Lord I don’t know how all this works [he laughs], but I know you’ve done it before. I know you’ve done it before. In Jesus name we pray, Lord Jesus. Thank you Jesus, thank you Jesus. Praise God, praise God. Praise God. [walks back to pulpit]

“I’m not going to belabor, we’re not going to beg, we’re not going to plead. I did write two alternate sermons. I chose the first one because it required faith. Required laying it all out there. And I wrote two endings. You could say, well why did you write two endings? Because I wanted to give God an opportunity if he chose to be sovereign. You see, the Scripture tells us we shall not all sleep. We sang the song, ‘when we all get to heaven, what a day of rejoicing that would be.'” [he then goes back to talking about the deceased]

Audio only version – Since the video will only be available a short time, I have added a link to the audio only version, which was edited by them as it is shorter than what was live broadcast. The time stamp is different for this as it starts at the 46:22 mark and ends at the 53:09 mark.

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Do you have to hate your family, to follow Christ?

I remember well when my son came to me and admitted, tearfully, that he had almost been willing to cut me off due to religious affiliation. I had left the church we belonged to for most of his young life, and that church taught adamantly that we were to be loyal to church first, family second, self last of all. The church was God, and God was The Church. (The Church is defined as that one building, with an address and a denominational title, in our former religion, not the body of all believers)

And didn’t Jesus say “If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father, mother, wife, children, brothers, and sisters, as well as his own life, he can’t be my disciple.”? (Luk 14:26) You might be surprised at how many results pop up on a Google search for the question, ‘Do I have to hate my family to follow Jesus?” And, more importantly, how many different responses there are. But, if one of the Ten Commandments is to ‘Honor thy parents,’ how could Jesus contradict that?

The reality is – this is yet another example of what the book, Biblical Literalism attempts to highlight. When taken at face value, a Scripture, punctured by time, transliteration, and read by people with little to no understanding of the culture who wrote the words and the culture of whom the words were meant for, is given a meaning it had no intent to produce.

Let’s digest this verse, found in Luke 14. This is important because I personally know families that have been torn to shreds over denominational stances, with players in the story using this verse as justification for why they can biblically separate and tear their families apart with justification. The reality is, Jesus gave us a beautiful verse that has been abused, misused and made ugly.

If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters—yes, even their own life—such a person cannot be my disciple. ~ Luke 14:26, NIV

If anyone comes to Me, and does not [a]hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life [in the sense of indifference to or relative disregard for them in comparison with his attitude toward God]—he cannot be My disciple. ~ Luke 14:26, AMP

Few Bible renditions do this verse justice and this is exactly why one of my favorite versions of Scripture to teach from has become the Amplified Bible. The note [a] in the above version reference (found here) provides this note to the reader:

*[a] An exaggerated figure of speech indicating a lesser degree of love, not actual hostility or aversion toward one’s earthly family.

Hate is not the action or intent of hating another human or family, nor does it imply the literal meaning of the word, found in the Strong’s Concordance (#G3404) as to ‘detest.‘ Rather, the usage here, as one of the meanings of the word, is to simply love-less. If we re-wrote this verse with that simple premise, you would gain a much clearer picture in today’s vernacular, which is a big part of my teachings…bringing the word to our generation.

“If anyone comes to Me [Jesus Christ], and does not [love me more, and love less] his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life [meaning that the discipleship to Jesus is the highest calling of a person over being a husband, or parent, although those are important and not to be ignored]—he cannot be My disciple. ~ Luke 14:26, AMP”

This may very well be one of my shortest articles ever written, because there is little more to say. Any man/woman who uses Scripture to justify cutting off family members based on denomination choice (in my case, I was Oneness Pentecostal…and family members who were NOT Oneness Pentecostal were not to be trusted or fellowshipped closely) is ignorant of the real meaning of Scripture.

We are to prefer Christ overall. We are to choose God over all worldly aspirations. We are to love Christ more (on a hierarchy of priorities) than our family, but we are still under the commandment to honor (love) our mothers and fathers.

We are to love God, with all of our heart, all of our mind, and all of our soul. We are to mightily love God, to give Him our everything, to set our relationship with him as our highest priority! (Luk 10:27) But in no way does this diminish our biblical commandments to love our wives, respect our Husbands, care for our children and to fundamentally prepare for our grandchildren. And more importantly, God commanded us to spend our efforts going to faraway places, the dirty places, the ‘across the tracks’ places, to reach the lost. (Luk 14:23)

Our first and foremost commandment was to love God, and second only to this, and counted as equally important and powerful, was to love our neighbors and that means, show the love of Christ, to bring them to Christ! So no, the answer is no. You do not, in our modern understanding of the word, need to HATE your family to love Christ.

In reality, loving Christ is the best way to love your family too!

Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?” ³⁷And Jesus replied to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ ³⁸This is the first and greatest commandment. ³⁹The second is like it, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself [that is, unselfishly seek the best or higher good for others].’ ⁴⁰The whole Law and the [writings of the] Prophets depend on these two commandments. ~ Matthew 22:36-40, AMP

Read more from Ralph at www.dividetheword.blog

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