The following is part six of a six part guest series from Alicia Sounier Dwivedi, a former United Pentecostal Church member. See Part 1, Part 2, Part 3, Part 4 & Part 5.
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Since we know belief alone saves us – what about baptism? Baptism is a declaration of spiritual warfare in the unseen realm. Believing in Jesus saves us – baptism is a loyalty oath! It declares whose side you are on in a spiritual war. Believe on Jesus – be baptized. It’s a wonderful first step of a heart changed by the Spirit – how beautiful! Michael Heiser covers this very well in a variety of his teachings from books, podcasts, and You Tube videos. Some would deny this, but let me ask this. If baptism is likened unto circumcision, how did circumcision save anybody? If you feel it did save, than it must have only saved men. Too bad so sad for women.
I’d always assumed my fear of God and hell came from the inability to speak in tongues. However, now I know so many who do speak in tongues are fear-filled too. This is because legalism and doctrinal error have stolen the peace of God. I fully believe had I been given the Gift of Tongues there would still have been fear and questions needing to be addressed as I tried to keep earning my salvation as taught by the church.
Another thing that really makes me doubt a variety of tongues spoken in our churches today is the story of a pastor’s wife I know who said speaking in tongues came so easily to her that she could be thinking about other things like her grocery list while babbling in tongues. What is the use? What mindless prayer…is this really praying in the Spirit? No.
A friend I went to Bible College with (who’s since walked away from God and the UPC church) told me he still speaks in tongues when he gets emotional. Once he was at a non-Christian concert and raised his hands at an emotional part in a song, and busted out in tongues! He said this can also happen at various parties thrown at home, and it amuses his guests. I’m not sharing this story to put him down in the least, but I’m sharing this because tongues is not all it’s cracked up to be, especially when they are used in a way that’s not scriptural. So the big question then becomes how much of the tongue talking going on in our services is really scriptural? I’ve come to think a majority of it is just an emotional response.
Another friend told me she knows a UPC pastor who has never spoken in tongues, and he doesn’t believe tongues are necessary to show the infilling of the Holy Ghost! I pray more UPC’ers come to this conclusion. [Note from Lois: Everyone who applies for license with the UPCI is asked if they believe that speaking with other tongues as the Spirit gives utterance is the initial
sign of the baptism of the Holy Ghost and if they have received this experience. The application asks where and when it happened and these questions are asked for each level of licensing.]
Someone recently told me they didn’t know anyone who hadn’t spoken in tongues (until my story came out). I just want to point out that unless someone trusts enough to share they haven’t spoken in tongues, then no one will know they haven’t spoken in tongues. The individual (me in this case) has to be able to trust in another not to shame them. And this person who said this to me has known me my whole life pretty much. Now many have come to me privately stating they feel like I’m telling their story as I’ve shared my own. We are not just one or two scattered here and there, but we could fill churches. We never know the pain someone is experiencing growing up sitting on the same pews right beside us.
My mother recently went to my previous pastor, and let him know I hadn’t really ever spoken in tongues. Do you want to know what he said? I will tell you… “Five minutes with me, and she’ll be speaking in other tongues.” What nonsense is this? Does he bring the Spirit? No. As if he hadn’t already prayed for me a gazillion times in my life! It didn’t work then, why would he think it’d work now? The Spirit determines the gifts each believer is to receive – not a pastor or anybody else.
Salvation has always been by belief in both the Old and New Testaments. Covenants change, but not the way of salvation. This is why the thief on the cross was able to be saved – because he believed in Jesus. There are so many denominational legalistic teachings that jump through hoops to try and justify situations like this, but it all comes down to belief. So simple. Such a blessing. So much peace in Jesus when we can rest in his assurance. And yes, people can be saved on their deathbeds by repenting and believing in Jesus (think thief on the cross).
As a result of where I am now, I feel such a kindred spirit with other believers. They are my brothers and sisters – not people I need to try to convert to a denomination. Understanding my place in Christ has made me want to share what I’ve learned. Everyone who loves Jesus and wants to live for him deserves to understand what God really wants for us and from us – belief and devotion to him only.
God is not a mean Father standing over us just waiting to string us up by our toes to drop us into hellfire for eternity if we mess up, don’t pray enough, wear pants, cut our hair, or something else a denomination has decided is a sin.
Here are some things I’ve relearned about our Heavenly Father…
1. He doesn’t require tongues as an admittance ticket into Heaven. HE ISN’T A BIG MEANIE.
2. The Bible doesn’t promote spanking of children as long as you pray before and after the act. “Sparing the rod” is not about spanking. When you learn the rod and staff are for the comforting and training of his sheep (not hitting his sheep) you realize HE ISN’T A BIG MEANIE.
a. I get it…raising children is hard and frustrating sometimes, especially when we’re unsure on how to bring about the desired behavior. I recommend Positive Parenting Solutions to help with a variety of issues. Their tips are tremendous for both parent and child.
3. We are not in an abusive relationship with God. He does not require we serve him OR ELSE he will torture us for eternity in hell. God wants to live with those who love him for eternity in Heaven. Those who do not want him will die a second death in hell and be dead for eternity (not alive and being tortured for all the rest of time). HE ISN’T A BIG MEANIE.
4. Tithes are not a requirement for Christians. God doesn’t require people give give give monetarily until they’ve given to such an extent that they have had to neglect their very own real needs to support the church. HE ISN’T A BIG MEANIE. See this post.
Would we ever think it’s a beautiful and sweet behavior to see a child crying and begging for a gift? “I’ll try hard to be good, mom & dad, I promise. May I pleeeeeease have my gift?” Tears pouring down face… “Pleeeeeease. I love you so much. I will change, I will do what you asked me to do. PLEEEEEASE!” Hands in the air pleading for this gift, and sobs wracking body. “This time may I have it?” Now put this on repeat a hundred times over. Yet, here we are expecting not only ourselves, but also our children, to approach our loving God like this for salvation. God must be so heartbroken! I would feel ashamed of myself if this was how I required my child to act like towards me.
Matthew 18:1-8 At that time the disciples came to Jesus and asked, “Who, then, is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?” He called a little child to him, and placed the child among them. And he said: “Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. Therefore, whoever takes the lowly position of this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven. And whoever welcomes one such child in my name welcomes me. “If anyone causes one of these little ones—those who BELIEVE in me—to stumble, it would be better for them to have a large millstone hung around their neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea. Woe to the world because of the things that cause people to stumble! Such things must come, but woe to the person through whom they come!”
<3 CHILD-LIKE FAITH. CHILD-LIKE FAITH. CHILD-LIKE FAITH. <3
I fully recognize and understand how scary and unsettling it can be to realize something we have been taught as truth may not actually be truth. There are a lot of emotions that go along with this revelation. However, how often do we hear that when God is trying to do a work in us it can be painful at times like the pressure it takes to make diamonds? We are a work in progress. He is the potter, and we are the clay.
*Jesus is the narrow gate into Heaven – not a denomination and their rules.
*What does ‘backslidden’ really mean? Teaser alert – it is not leaving your denomination! See this article.
*I highly HIGHLY recommend listening to Deanna Jo’s YouTube channel Responsible Faith. She’s an ex UPC’er who reteaches a lot of scripture that was used to bind the saints into imaging a denomination, and shows what scripture is really trying to say. Image Jesus – not a denomination.
*I recommend the book Pagan Christianity: Exploring the Roots of Our Church Practices by Frank Viola and George Barna. This book delves into the history of our church practices, and what God really wants for his people. God wants a much more individualistic functioning of each of his children. Each and every member has an important role, and each one is just as important as the next. Our current church style makes the preacher have a really big mouth, and saints on the pews really big ears. This is not what God intended for the preacher or church body.
*This is a two-part teaching on the Grace of God. You’ll laugh, maybe cry, but in the end understand more about our wonderful Jesus.
*Mike Winger, The Beat by Allen Parr, Keeping it in Context by Aurelio Lessey have a lot of excellent teachings on a variety of topics on You Tube.
*A former Pentecostal pastor’s words on how the United Pentecostal Church misrepresents the Gospel may be found here.
If anyone would like to contact me with sincere questions, please feel free to email me at alicia.dwivedi@gmail.com. If anyone would like to contact me to berate or threaten me with hell – it won’t work. Fear and hell no longer have a hold on me.
I hope and pray my testimony of fear to faith will help people come to a better understanding of the Gospel and salvation. God Bless!
Alicia Sounier Dwivedi – April 27, 2023
Deanna Jo of Responsible Faith interviews Alicia:
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Wow! It’s like you wrote my life’s story! I have been in UPC-type churches since birth. I left God and church for 15 years but NEVER felt like God left me. I began again in AOG turned prosperity group, left that and into a non-denominational word of faith group whose leadership said my questions were too hard, and who treated people badly. So off we went to a very relaxed ecumenical church where odd conversations happened. My husband -raised AOG gave up and hasn’t attended church since. I have been attending an independent Pentecostal church with relaxed standards but lots of “encouragement” to attend every single service (4 a week) plus every fellowship function, revival and camp meeting service. I am exhausted with my mother just passing after a few years of illness and my husband’s chronic illnesses.
Yet the legalistic voices in my head will NOT be silent. I have such high unrealistic expectations for myself and fail to meet them daily. So that leads to a cycle of “failure” and that unworthiness. I am looking into counseling.
Wow! I’m so glad to have shared the same feelings and thoughts you had, but this type of life in Christ is HARD. I’m sorry you went through things like this too.
A teaching that touched me so much, and out legalistic teachings in place was this YouTube video. By the end I was in tears!
https://youtu.be/Y-44FtBJWdI
The Bible talks about speaking in tongues three times. The first time is a story about how people who loved Jesus came together, and they could understand each other even though they were speaking different languages. The other times say that, if no one can understand you, you’re not speaking in tongues, you’re just babbling; and that not everyone gets the gift of tongues, and people who can speak in tongues had better not feel superior to those who can’t. Nowhere does the Bible say anything about incomprehensible babbling being a secret angelic language. People who don’t believe in God at all can “speak in tongues;” the babbling version at least. Jesus said that the most important thing to do is to love God and our neighbours. He didn’t say anything about magically understanding people who are speaking a foreign language, or speaking in a magical angelic language. If you’re going to a church that prioritises speaking in tongues (which lots of people can do without any faith involved), and having intense feelings while in a crowd (like any person can have while at a rock or symphony concert), your church may not be as interested in following Jesus or the Bible as they claim. Remember, Jesus talked about “love” as a verb. He didn’t say anything about praying for people, or thinking loving thoughts about them. He went out and fed the hungry, and helped the poor and sick. And that’s what he told his followers to do. No magic tricks required.
If only I’d had someone in my life like you while growing up in the UPC. 🙏 🥹
I attended the UPC when I was a teenager and young adult, but I left when I stopped believing everything I was told from the pulpit and started reading the Bible for myself. Yes, you must repent and be BAPTIZED IN THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST ONLY, and then you MUST speak with tongues. You must do all these to go to heaven. Towards the end of my time there, a friend of mine had repented and been baptized but could not speak in tongues. It bothered me so bad to pray with her at the altar service after service and have her unable to speak in tongues. Finally, I couldn’t stand it any more. I told her that God loved her and he knew her heart and repentance and that she was saved whether she spoke in tongues or not. I had come to believe that myself. I’ll never forget the look of peace on her face. But the church elders came down on me like a ton of bricks because what I said was heresy. I told them they should be ashamed of themselves to hurt people so badly, and I told them I no longer believed their UPC doctrine and I left. I saw my friend a few times after that. She told me she ended up leaving because of how they made her feel. We finally ended up attending a non-UPC church together. The UPC leadership needs to be held accountable for some of the terrible things they do to people. They are not gods. They are power-mad sinners and if they get saved it will be by grace alone and not any of their UPC works.
How beautiful that your friend had a friend like you!
It’s actually terrifying to consider the people who have walked away from God because of the doctrinal errors the UPC does to the Gospel.
😧