Debbie McNulty’s Podcast Interview – Calvary Gospel Church Sex Abuse Survivor

I have written extensively about Debbie McNulty’s childhood sexual abuse by alleged perpetrator Steven J. Dahl while she was a member of Calvary Gospel Church, a United Pentecostal Church in Madison, Wisconsin, where John W. Grant was the pastor. (He now calls himself a bishop.) There are others from CGC who were allegedly abused by various men in the church. Below is a list of the articles that will give extensive details about this case:

A UPC Church Responds To Sexual Abuse
A Pastor Who Should Not Have Been Part 1
A Pastor Who Should Not Have Been Part 2
A Pastor Who Should Not Have Been Part 3
UPCI Ministers Embrace Alleged Pedophile Part 1
UPCI Ministers Embrace Alleged Pedophile Part 2
One Woman Remembers Steven Dahl’s UPCI Connection
A Day Of Reckoning For Calvary Gospel Church

In September 2019 a two hour podcast interview with Debbie was released by a group where normally “atheist and agnostic Ex-Christians share their stories of deconversion.” While she considers herself neo-pagan, they made an exception in Debbie’s case and included her story in one of their podcasts. There are many who have experienced spiritual abuse who have walked away from Christianity and with what Debbie endured, it is no surprise that she is not a Christian. We previously shared this interview on social media but I want to provide some additional information about what is covered so that potential listeners will have a better idea of what is included and so that some, who may not have two hours to listen, might be able to skip to a section that interests them.

In the first 55 minutes, Debbie shares about herself concerning her past and when she started questioning the teachings of her former church as well as the Bible. Some may not like the discussion about the Bible, but don’t allow that to stop you from hearing her story. Debbie had a childhood that she describes as “marinated in fear” and speaks about her complex PTSD after years of watching films like A Thief In The Night and hearing sermon after sermon about the rapture, end-times and people being left behind. She was very involved at Calvary Gospel Church, was a student in the church operated school that was held in their basement and was also a Bible quiz captain. (Bible quizzing is very popular in some United Pentecostal churches.) At home, things were often difficult and troublesome as they were poor and her parents divorced after her dad committed adultery. She later found herself in an abusive marriage while attending a Baptist church. She was in her early 20s when she was questioning the Bible and felt that the book of Genesis fell apart upon examination, which lead her to reject it all.

Debbie at 11 years old

At about the 55 minute mark she begins speaking about her childhood sexual abuse and Steven Dahl, now of Oconto, Wisconsin and pastor of the Pentecostal Lighthouse Church, which meets in the old VFW building that was donated to the church. Debbie shows how she was groomed as an 11 year old and how he would complain to her about his marriage (he hadn’t been married long when Debbie’s abuse began) and how his wife wouldn’t have sex while fasting. During their first time together, he held her hand and then asked for a kiss, which she gave him on the nose. He allegedly responded that it wasn’t the type of kiss he wanted. Over time things escalated. Debbie felt responsible for the sexual abuse she endured when she was eleven and twelve years old. She shares that at twelve he unsuccessfully attempted to have intercourse with her.

Steven Dahl 1990s

Debbie was working with a 19-year-old at a church popcorn wagon when one day she suddenly blurted out what was happening. The teen asked questions of her and then told a minister and his wife from Calvary Gospel Church, whom she was living with, and they told her to tell Debbie that if she didn’t inform the pastor, that they would. Debbie had to make an appointment with pastor John W. Grant in order to tell him what was being done to her. Grant never spoke to her about it again after this meeting. A few days later is when Debbie received a phone call from Steven Dahl, saying he was leaving town and that it wasn’t her fault. At the next church service, she found out about him being caught in bed with his wife’s minor sister, Alice. They later married soon after Alice turned 18.

McNulty goes on to talk about the #churchtoo movement and mentioned that she hadn’t seen any United Pentecostal related stories. She started feeling that she had to tell her story, including the names of those involved and the church. At about the 1:22 mark she mentions my website and how she discovered she was not alone and that girls she had once babysat for had also been sexually abused. She became angry, sad and frustrated. All of this lead to her starting a private CGC support group on Facebook that started with about eight people and at the time of the interview had grown to 25 members.

At the 1:28 mark they speak about the Assembly bills in Wisconsin that hope to change the laws regarding child sexual abuse and remove the clergy privilege loophole that enables ministers to fail to report. Debbie spoke about how she and some others met with members of the Assembly and told them their stories of abuse. This meeting lead to a visit with the Madison police chief as well as to some investigative stories published by the Capital Times and written by Katelyn Ferral. On August 7, 2019, Debbie McNulty and another childhood sexual abuse survivor from Calvary Gospel Church, Rebecca Martin Byrd, both spoke at the press meeting that announced the Assembly bills. They were subsequently interviewed by some media outlets. At the 1:49 mark the interviewer is asking Debbie various questions and they speak about how Dahl had removed things from the Internet and how her husband confronted Dahl on his Facebook profile. She shared how Steven Dahl admits to adultery, but not that it allegedly happened due to sexually assaulting minors.

Debbie’s story is important and should be heard and known by others. Calvary Gospel Church has an alarming number of child sexual abuse survivors going back decades and these need to be investigated. No church should be permitted to enable, cover-up, turn a bind eye to, or fail to report instances of sexual abuse, especially those which happen to minor children. The United Pentecostal Church has many more instances of sexual abuse than their leaders and members realize or will admit to. While the organization is pretty small in North America, (Bernard stated in the January 2020 issue of Pentecostal Life that their North American churches only have an attendance of about 600,000 people and an estimated constituency of 800,000 as of August 2019.) these accounts of sexual abuse are just as alarming as those of the Catholic or Baptist churches.

Steve Dahl 11-23-22 Facebook

Known as ‘The Rev,’ Steve Dahl runs The Rev Oconto Car Club Facebook Group (started September 28, 2021). He organizes Car N Tunes events in Wisconsin and at the annual Oconto Fly-In Car & Tractor Show (He also runs or helps run that Facebook Page, which started February 16, 2018), where he has served as emcee and DJ at the event for thirteen years. The next Fly-In date is September 21, 2024.

You will find a complete list of articles in this series by clicking here.

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Decades — kicked out, walked out, simply out

I realized tonight that I’m reaching two anniversaries, not just one. In December 2009 I walked out of my former church. But what I don’t often think about is that in 1999 I was being “sat down” and nearing a time when I’d be kicked out. Around this time 20 years ago I was begging God to let me stay in a very unhealthy, spiritually abusive church, and around 10 years ago I was walking out of another.

A lot has changed in 20 years. I am no longer afraid of not attending church. I rarely go. I’m no longer afraid of pastors’ disapproval, of hell, or of what a church will think of me. The fear that if the pastor disapproves he can prevent me not only from attending HIS church but others like it no longer bothers me because… well, really, why would I choose to go to an abusive church “like his” or attend a church where the pastor even thinks it IS his church? More than that, I no longer – and haven’t for some time – cringed every year in January and February, wondering what would happen THIS year, remembering that one… the one in 1999, then one where I was convinced I was going to hell because the pastor was abusive.

At the same time, I also no longer celebrate like I did in 1999, 2000 and the years following. The first few years, I had multiple Christmas trees, lights, music, movies… I wore myself out with it and that was probably a good thing. I needed to make that time positive in my mind. This year, though, I haven’t even decorated yet. My job changed a couple years ago and November and early December can be exhausting, but I also don’t need something to keep my mind occupied. I don’t have a need to make the season positive, because it is, whether I have no trees or four. (I also have a very destructive cat, which may also be part of the reason for the lack of decorations.)

It was hard. Every year gets easier. I should have left 20 years ago. Actually I should have left more than 20 years ago, because the man who kicked me out did a lot of damage, and not just to me. Looking back on it all from ten years or twenty, here are some things I know:

  • Though I would have run back to the abusive church if I’d known then where I’d be now if I left, I’m so glad I did leave.
  • Things were a whole lot worse in the church I walked out of than I ever knew when I left it.
  • I’ve met a whole lot of people with love, patience, kindness, goodness, gentleness, meekness, and self-control whom Christians would condemn. These have become friends. They aren’t perfect, but they are accepting and they are considerate and respectful of others, and that’s encouraging.
  • The best way to witness to non-Christians may really not be telling people “I’m a Christian” repeatedly… actually that may be one of the worst ways to witness… it may push people away rather than make them more interested. Particularly if the one saying they’re a Christian doesn’t particularly act like one.
  • A whole lot of what I was taught was wrong… isn’t. As a matter of fact, some of what I was taught was wrong is really simply normal.

Leaving was hard. Especially being kicked out. At least walking out I had anger to motivate me and I could prepare myself. At least I chose my moment and I rejected them, not vice-versa. At least I had some supports in place when I walked out. I was also older and more aware of some things. It didn’t make it easy. Leaving is always hard. But staying would have been impossible.

Happy anniversaries to myself.

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